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Terrence Brannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Any wet-behind-the-ears reader of this text is going to flip his wig
> here. Just what is it about "1 that implies column addition instead of
> row addition?

<smile /> Some wet-behind-the-ears readers may have already lost their
wigs by the time they got this far in J.

<soapbox>

More seriously, I recall somewhere reading that Ken thought one should
learn J (and APL too, I guess) much as one learns a foreign (spoken)
language: through doing it, as in a total immersion program.  After
having tried (years ago) to learn J as I had learned Algol and Pascal
and other languages (by reading manuals and comprehending principles)
and having failed, I figured out he was right, at least for me.

The essence of learning J seems to involve being shown a toe-hold by the
Primer, one of the other manuals, someone in this group, some of the
many things you can find online, or (in my case) some of the old,
ring-bound manuals I have from way back when, and then striking out from
that place, seeing what works, seeing if I can make sense of it with
more experiments and judicious use of the dictionary and manuals, filing
away key idioms somewhere to aid my later recollection and use, and
iterating on this process forever.

I found (at least) two challenges when learning J (I guess I'm still
learning, but I'm over a few humps already): it's nigh on to impossible
to learn J without a computer at hand (and Ken and others have said that
repeatedly), and some of the examples (you know who you are, examples!)
require a bit of math or computational skill to understand.  That turns
out to be good, too, if a bit mind-stretching along the way in some
cases, for it helps one to figure out mathematical approaches to common
problems, and that helps when applying J elsewhere.

I think Henry's J for C Programmers, Roger's Learning J, and other such
documents are great, but I don't view them as the primary way to learn J
effectively.  It's a bit like when I learned German.  In high school and
college, I perused grammar books and dictionaries, and I took classes,
read literature, and wrote papers, but I was always thinking in English
and translating my work into or out of German.  

When I went to work in Germany, there was no more time to translate.  I
was lost at first, but, before too long, I began to think and dream in
German.  My grammar and pronounciation might not have improved much, but
my ability to communicate by spoken or written German went up markedly,
and I rarely thought in English anymore (except when doing arithmetic --
it's hard for me to add when the digits are in the opposite order to
what I grew up with).

JfC and LJ can provide some toeholds, but I think they're best for
people who have already learned to speak J and want to get better (much
as a grammar book may be best for those who can already speak German or
French or Mandarin in a natural-sounding manner and who want help with
more complex sentences or with constructing new sentence types that
aren't yet part of their common usage).

_That's_ the key for learning J, I think, and that's why I think it's
important to get people's wigs a'flipping.

So that wet-behind-the-ears reader might be well off by trying out "1,
"0, "2, and who knows what else on both the original arrays and others
of varying shapes to see what J says back.  Maybe they'll figure out
rank before they have to read about it!

Just my $0.02,

</soapbox> <smile />

Bill
- -- 
Bill Harris                      http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
Facilitated Systems                              Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/                  phone: +1 425 337-5541
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