On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:24:46 -0500 Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tuesday 21 January 2003 02:53, Roger Oberholtzer wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:12:16 -0800 (PST) > > > > Net Llama! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- Tim Wunder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Moving to general (at least trying to...) > > > > > > > > The greenhouse effect is no more than a theory. A popular one, but > > > > > > thanks dubya. > > > > > > on the contrary its been proven, and the US is one of the few > > > countries that doesn't officially recognize it. > > > > The US recognizes that the climactic changes being associated with the > > current thing called greenhouse have occurred. What they do not agree > > with(me too) is that they are the direct result of human activity, nor > > that imposing quotas on producer countries (even adjustable with a > > possibility to sell off ones unused quota) is a solution. Producers are > > penalized, not consumers. You may argue: set the producers straight and > > the consumers will be sorted out as well. What effect on the already > > fragile world opinion would it be for the US to use up its quota for > > products only available in the US? After all, that market would come > > first (it has the most to spend). > > >>>What you mean is that George Bush Jr. and the variious energy and > >pollution > industries who bought the White House for don't recognize the human > component of the greenhouse and that is some type of annual of cycle. I'm > a biologist, but I have to admit that I knoe of no mechanism that take C)2 > generated by the human species and sends it directly into the ground to > form coal deposits. The only mechanism I know that keeps the eath's > surface temperature below the point where the oceans would boil away is > the conversion of co2 to oxygen by green plants. And here's the double > wammie of the human race at the time when we're dumping more co2 into the > atmosphere since life began we're wipimg out the phytoplankton of the > oceans, the trees of the forest and destroying grassland areas that are > the main co2 scrubbers on the earth. As far as cycles go consider that > last year there was clear open water at the North Pole. The last time that > happened was just be for the big space rock fell on the dinosaurs 60 > million years ago.
Yes to all this. No argument. But the item in all this I was referring to was emission controls. This is the area I am discussing, and the area the US will not sign a badly planned (IMHO) treaty. > > What is needed is not some half-baked 'plan' to curb emissions that is > > not enforceable and that has major drawbacks out of the box. > > > > > >>>There is nothing unenforceable about emission controls. All it takes is > > > that when some senator or congress calls an antipollotion agency to > express his concern about the effect that an agency action will have on > the poor workers in his district is to just hangup on him, log in his call Stop. That is US-centric. I don't doubt that it could be controlled in the US. But what of China? Or most of Africa? Those countries that would control emissions according to the agreement would suffer at the hands of those that would sign the agreement but not enforce it at home. I suspect most pressure on the US comes from such countries. It is easy for many to sign since they know it could never be enforced in their country if they themselves choose not to do so. And, if into the bargain you slow down competing nations who would enforce it, so much the better. This is where the current emission control scheme breaks down. A solution is needed. But a world-wide one. -- +����������������������������+�������������������������������+ � Roger Oberholtzer � E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] � � OPQ Systems AB � WWW: http://www.opq.se/ � � Erik Dahlbergsgatan 41-43 � Phone: Int + 46 8 314223 � � 115 34 Stockholm � Mobile: Int + 46 733 621657 � � Sweden � Fax: Int + 46 8 302602 � +����������������������������+�������������������������������+ _______________________________________________ General mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/general
