Hi all,
For what it counts, I like the idea of a 'turn scissors on/off' toggle
button (default off) that is prominent in the page, like the Exhibit
1.0'copy all' button is. Makes it easy to turn on if you need to.
The scissors are sort of distracting, but important. I do think that some
work might need to be done to make the link between the scissors and the
object they describe a bit clearer (I have trouble knowing which scissors to
click after I've been exploring my map view for a while).
I do not like the idea of requiring a firefox extension or something else to
grab the data because I'd like to think that someday it will be more likely
that average users will want to d/l the data for their own uses.
Anyhow, that's my $.02.
Best,
~Joshua Aresty
MIT LLARC Programmer/Analyst
On 4/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. SIMILE Presenter Needed at Boston Documentation and Training
(Scott Abel)
2. Re: Exhibit 2.0 scissors (Flip: scissors. Flip: no scissors.)
(Florian Fangohr)
3. Re: Exhibit 2.0 scissors (Flip: scissors. Flip: no scissors.)
(David Karger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:18:03 -0400
From: Scott Abel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: SIMILE Presenter Needed at Boston Documentation and Training
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
If you are a SIMILE guru and good presenter interested in showing off
the power of SIMILE solutions, I'd love to hear from you.
Specifically, I'm looking for a presenter to address the 8th annual
Documentation and Training Conference October 18 or 19th. The session
would last 60 minutes. I'd like to help our attendees -- technical
communication and training pros who are wanting to advance their
careers -- understand the many possibilities XML content provides us.
I'm interested in presentations covering the Simile project in
general, as well as examples from Timeline, Exhibit, Piggy Bank,
Gadget, and Welkin. (I know that 60 minutes may not be enough time to
do all of these, so perhaps only two or three examples can actually
be shown).
Interested in learning more? Contact me.
Thanks!!!
Scott Abel ~ The Content Wrangler
tele: +1 317.466.1840 skype: abelsp email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.thecontentwrangler.com
Web Content 2007: Chicago IL
June 18-19, 2007 www.webcontent2007.com
DocTrain WEST: Advancing Your Career
October 16-19, 2007 Lowell, MA
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:18:35 -0400
From: Florian Fangohr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Exhibit 2.0 scissors (Flip: scissors. Flip: no scissors.)
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> From: David Huynh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Exhibit 2.0 scissors (Flip: scissors. Flip: no scissors.)
Dave,
> I haven't actually thought of that... Thanks for the idea! Generally
> "modal" interfaces are considered bad,
I would say generalisations are generally bad. ;)
> but in this case, it might be acceptable.
(Pending a definition of modal) modal interfaces are great when used
with the right balanced or filtered set of features. They are many
text editors for instance that fade everything out and let you
concentrate on your words, which really makes a difference to the
quality of the work, if compared to something like word where
everything is cluttered and happens at the same time, and dogs start
talking to you.
When well balanced, I have learned that modal interfaces can let you
concentrate on the task at hand and make users more efficient and
satisfied, than when having everything always accessible.
In exhibit's case, it would make a lot of sense to have one call out
to the mechanism to get 'behind the curtain' at the bottom of the
page for instance. To get there one user group clearly demonstrated
that they were interested enough to scroll all the way down (or the
opposite, they didn't find what they were looking for, but that group
of users is likely to leave the page anyway and if your labels are
clear they won't click). So I would assume that at the bottom of the
page you are speaking to the right people.
> Right now I leave the scissors on
> the big collection views but I've removed them from the individual
> item
> lenses.
I would also argue that the scissors don't work well as icons:
First time users: Will I cut that data out? Will it be gone? Why do I
cut? I don't know but it must be important it popped up when I
rolled over this.
Repeat users will get surely get used to it and stop thinking about
it. You are one of them ;)
I would go with a clearly labelled button that makes the page life,
and let's people get at the data.
Options: [ Use this data ] or [ Extract Data ]. Maybe somebody else
has a more fitting words.
> Perhaps discoverability can be traded off for less annoyance, to
> both users and authors, and then the general population
> can be made aware by other means... Maybe that's enough to get some
> reaction at this time.
First time I saw the scissors, I had no idea what they were, 'copy
all' was a little better but not much. I roll over the content, the
scissors pop up, which make them very prominent, you definitely
peaked my interest and distracted from the content of the page. There
was no way I couldn't click on it. So I do click, to the majority of
the people you will continue this mysterious trail, you pop open a
little menu with no label but mysterious items. Let's see where this
leads? Ah! Another mysterious window pops up with mysterious text,
but absolutely no explanation or hints along the way. At least it's
easy to close the window.
> And the scissors can show up on individual item lenses if the Shift
> key is held
> down, or something like that.
The shift key would need a line of copy somewhere, but why not give
the people that want to work with the data a interface that makes
that easy?
Don't get me wrong, I think the work you are doing is fantastic, but
I feel like you dug yourself a hole.
I would suggest to show exhibit to five people that have never heard
of it and see what they do.
I am pretty sure it will cast a whole new light on the interface.
Sorry to nag.
Florian
-
honest communications
for a better tomorroh
http://fangohr.com
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:30:00 -0400
From: David Karger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Exhibit 2.0 scissors (Flip: scissors. Flip: no scissors.)
To: General List <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Perhaps it would be worth creating an extension like firebug designed
specifically for exhibits, that lets "developers" do stuff regular users
won't want to---grabbing data in certain ways; grabbing a particular
lens out of an exhibit, overriding a given lens with your own lens...
Florian Fangohr wrote:
>> From: David Huynh <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Subject: Re: Exhibit 2.0 scissors (Flip: scissors. Flip: no scissors.)
>
> Dave,
>
>> I haven't actually thought of that... Thanks for the idea! Generally
>>
>> "modal" interfaces are considered bad,
>>
>
> I would say generalisations are generally bad. ;)
>
>> but in this case, it might be acceptable.
>>
>
> (Pending a definition of modal) modal interfaces are great when used
> with the right balanced or filtered set of features. They are many
> text editors for instance that fade everything out and let you
> concentrate on your words, which really makes a difference to the
> quality of the work, if compared to something like word where
> everything is cluttered and happens at the same time, and dogs start
> talking to you.
> When well balanced, I have learned that modal interfaces can let you
> concentrate on the task at hand and make users more efficient and
> satisfied, than when having everything always accessible.
>
> In exhibit's case, it would make a lot of sense to have one call out
> to the mechanism to get 'behind the curtain' at the bottom of the page
> for instance. To get there one user group clearly demonstrated that
> they were interested enough to scroll all the way down (or the
> opposite, they didn't find what they were looking for, but that group
> of users is likely to leave the page anyway and if your labels are
> clear they won't click). So I would assume that at the bottom of the
> page you are speaking to the right people.
>
>> Right now I leave the scissors on
>> the big collection views but I've removed them from the individual item
>> lenses.
>
> I would also argue that the scissors don't work well as icons:
> First time users: Will I cut that data out? Will it be gone? Why do I
> cut? I don't know but it must be important it popped up when I rolled
> over this.
> Repeat users will get surely get used to it and stop thinking about
> it. You are one of them ;)
>
> I would go with a clearly labelled button that makes the page life,
> and let's people get at the data.
> Options: [ Use this data ] or [ Extract Data ]. Maybe somebody else
> has a more fitting words.
>
>>
>> Perhaps discoverability can be traded off for less annoyance, to both
>> users and authors, and then the general population
>>
>> can be made aware by other means... Maybe that's enough to get some
>> reaction at this time.
>>
>
> First time I saw the scissors, I had no idea what they were, 'copy
> all' was a little better but not much. I roll over the content, the
> scissors pop up, which make them very prominent, you definitely peaked
> my interest and distracted from the content of the page. There was no
> way I couldn't click on it. So I do click, to the majority of the
> people you will continue this mysterious trail, you pop open a little
> menu with no label but mysterious items. Let's see where this leads?
> Ah! Another mysterious window pops up with mysterious text, but
> absolutely no explanation or hints along the way. At least it's easy
> to close the window.
>
>> And the scissors can show up on individual item lenses if the Shift
>> key is held
>>
>> down, or something like that.
>>
>
> The shift key would need a line of copy somewhere, but why not give
> the people that want to work with the data a interface that makes that
> easy?
>
> Don't get me wrong, I think the work you are doing is fantastic, but I
> feel like you dug yourself a hole.
> I would suggest to show exhibit to five people that have never heard
> of it and see what they do.
> I am pretty sure it will cast a whole new light on the interface.
>
> Sorry to nag.
>
>
> Florian
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> honest communications
> for a better tomorroh
>
> http://fangohr.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> General mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://simile.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/general
>
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