See attached. -- Robin Hugh Johnson Gentoo Linux Developer E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG FP : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85
Summary of the Gentoo Council meeting held 11 January 2006 ---------------------------------------------------------- (Summary prepared by robbat2).
Roll-call: Present: flameeyes (proxied by UberLord), kingtaco, kloeri, kugelfang, robbat2, wolf31o2 Absent: vapier No agenda items were raised ahead of time, so we just went in alphabetical order. - Kugelfang reported that the EAPI0 draft document is not quite complete. spb had hoped to have it ready before the meeting, but didn't manage. It has been restricted thus far to avoid 'large discussions about minor details' while the bigger picture is assembled. It will be open for all input and refinements later. - Kugelfang visited the issue of the contents of /usr/libexec. Diego and Vapier had raised it previously, and Kugelfang is working on the document, in a style similar to FHS. - Kugelfang wanted to know about the process for council members stepping down. This was prompted by solely by Flameeye's message to the council channel earlier in the day, which implied he was retiring. The point was made moot by Flameeye's later blog post that he was going to take a two week break instead. - On the procedural side, both Kugelfang and KingTaco wanted to know what the what the process for a retiring council member was. Should it be the next person on the original ballot results, or should a further election be held? The spirit of the council GLEP was a further election, but some questions were had in this. The issue needs to be raised on the -dev mailing list, and revisited during the next council meeting. - Robbat2 reported on the successful bugzilla migration, and the work for the new CVS server. The Bugzilla news was well recieved. - Robbat2 brought up the status of the SPF documentation. Kloeri said that he has them in a nearly finished state, but hasn't had a chance lately to complete them. Kloeri will other complete them shortly, or upload the drafts to the bug in the meantime. - Robbat2 requested that for helping to get an agenda together in future, all council members should just braindump their potential minor items to the council mailing list a few days ahead of each meeting. Large issues should still be raised on -dev/-core as needed, but the smaller stuff like followups can just be braindumped. Robbat2 promised to rig an automated reminder to the council members. - A last call for vapier was made, and since he didn't show, he got his slacker mark for this meeting. - Wolf31o2 inquired as to the status of the Reply-To documentation (bug 154595). As there was absolutely no progress, Wolf31o2 was going to just write it up and convert it to GuideXML. - Wolf31o2 proposed the concept of council-managed projects. These are to be Gentoo-specific projects where the council takes the initiative of defining creating software specifications and requirements, recruits people to work on them (not nessicarily developers), and helps manage the project (leaving people to actually work on it). Some past almost precedents were noted and the council was in favour of the general concept. Wolf31o2 was going to seek out some initial proposals for small projects to test the concept on. The floor was opened at this point. - KingTaco jokingly asked if the Gentoo Foundation could afford to buy Sealand, which lead into real queries about the current financial reports. Wolf31o2 located a November 2006 posting in the NFP archives and provided a link to it.
Jan 11 12:00:09 wolf31o2|mobile heh
Jan 11 12:00:17 * robbat2 sets mode +m #gentoo-council
Jan 11 12:00:56 robbat2 ok, it's time folks
Jan 11 12:00:57 kingtaco|work roll-call
Jan 11 12:01:01 * kingtaco|work is here
Jan 11 12:01:11 kloeri hi all
Jan 11 12:01:29 * wolf31o2|mobile is here
Jan 11 12:01:32 robbat2 Kugelfang, SpanKY, vapier: pingy
Jan 11 12:01:42 kingtaco|work no uberlord?
Jan 11 12:01:45 kingtaco|work for flameeyes?
Jan 11 12:01:49 * You've invited UberLord to #gentoo-council
(zelazny.freenode.net)
Jan 11 12:02:10 * iluxa ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/developer/iluxa) has joined
#gentoo-council
Jan 11 12:02:13 * You've invited Uber to #gentoo-council
(zelazny.freenode.net)
Jan 11 12:02:20 * antarus ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/developer/antarus) has
joined #gentoo-council
Jan 11 12:02:32 * kingtaco|work has changed the topic to: Next meeting:
NOW
Jan 11 12:02:40 Kugelfang orly?
Jan 11 12:03:16 kingtaco|work 5 of 7
Jan 11 12:03:31 kingtaco|work lets get the shindig started
Jan 11 12:03:33 * DrEeevil ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/user/bonsaikitten) has
joined #gentoo-council
Jan 11 12:03:42 robbat2 anybody got an Agenda? I didn't see one posted
Jan 11 12:03:50 kingtaco|work I don't
Jan 11 12:03:59 Kugelfang robbat2: i have two thingsw
Jan 11 12:04:04 Kugelfang actually, three
Jan 11 12:04:06 kloeri there haven't been any agenda posted afaik
Jan 11 12:04:09 Kugelfang one minute
Jan 11 12:04:12 * Uber ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #gentoo-council
Jan 11 12:04:20 * kloeri gives channel operator status to Uber
Jan 11 12:04:20 wolf31o2|mobile I have something I would like to propose, too...
Jan 11 12:04:23 * Uber waves
Jan 11 12:04:28 kloeri welcome Uber
Jan 11 12:04:29 Kugelfang hey Roy :-)
Jan 11 12:04:43 Uber everyone knows I'm proxy for diego?
Jan 11 12:04:45 kingtaco|work da
Jan 11 12:04:49 kloeri yup
Jan 11 12:05:03 robbat2 i don't see g2boojum here today, so I'll do the
conducting if nobody else wants to
Jan 11 12:05:19 kingtaco|work goforit
Jan 11 12:05:22 Kugelfang yes
Jan 11 12:05:51 robbat2 ok, since there was no agenda, lets just go alpha order
down the list, and let each person list their things for the agenda quicly
Jan 11 12:05:55 robbat2 KingTaco, anything?
Jan 11 12:06:09 kingtaco|work not at the moment
Jan 11 12:06:12 robbat2 kloeri,
Jan 11 12:06:23 kloeri nothing
Jan 11 12:06:28 robbat2 Kugelfang, your items you mentioned?
Jan 11 12:06:32 Kugelfang ok
Jan 11 12:06:40 Kugelfang first: EAPI0 document
Jan 11 12:06:48 kingtaco|work QA stuff?
Jan 11 12:06:49 Kugelfang spb had been asked to do it.
Jan 11 12:06:52 Kugelfang kingtaco|work: yes
Jan 11 12:07:00 kingtaco|work ok
Jan 11 12:07:08 Kugelfang he's done quite some work, it's not yet
completely ready
Jan 11 12:07:21 kingtaco|work is it posted somewhere?
Jan 11 12:07:27 Kugelfang i have access to it, but i may no publish it yet
Jan 11 12:07:40 Kugelfang kingtaco|work: nope, there needs to be some
work done, it's very promising already though
Jan 11 12:07:44 kloeri I have access as well but same conditions
Jan 11 12:07:46 kingtaco|work it'd be nice if people could view and comment
Jan 11 12:07:48 Kugelfang it's an 30page pdf document right now :-)
Jan 11 12:07:54 Kugelfang s/an/a/
Jan 11 12:08:31 robbat2 does he have a rough timeline for having it more done?
Jan 11 12:08:33 Kugelfang i just wanted to mention it, to contradict
Diego's statement from planet.gentoo.org
Jan 11 12:08:36 kingtaco|work I'm not a fan of the secrecy
Jan 11 12:08:44 kloeri I think the idea of keeping it restricted right now is
to get the bigger picture finished before getting into large discussions about
minor details
Jan 11 12:08:45 * ferringb ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #gentoo-council
Jan 11 12:08:54 Kugelfang kingtaco|work: he wants to have it done
_completely_ before discussions starts on parts
Jan 11 12:09:12 kingtaco|work ok
Jan 11 12:09:17 robbat2 ok, so long as that doesn't limit input being taken
into account later
Jan 11 12:09:17 Kugelfang kingtaco|work: once it's done, it'll be as open
as anything else.. he just doesn't consider it done yet
Jan 11 12:09:20 wolf31o2|mobile as much as I'm all for openness... I can
understadn that one
Jan 11 12:09:21 wolf31o2|mobile heh
Jan 11 12:09:33 kingtaco|work I wont vote on it until it has suitable time in
public review
Jan 11 12:09:41 kloeri I actually agree with keeping it restricted for now
personally
Jan 11 12:09:49 Kugelfang he wanted to have a draft ready for tonight,
but didn't quite make it as far as i understood
Jan 11 12:10:01 kloeri and there'll be plenty of opportunity to comment on it
and refine parts later
Jan 11 12:10:06 Kugelfang exactly
Jan 11 12:10:08 kingtaco|work ...ok
Jan 11 12:10:09 robbat2 ok, thats fine for the moment
Jan 11 12:10:16 Kugelfang that was my first point
Jan 11 12:10:28 Kugelfang second point: /usr/libexec
Jan 11 12:10:34 wolf31o2|mobile heh
Jan 11 12:10:44 Kugelfang Diego and vapier had a discussion about that,
and i promised to bring up a document for it
Jan 11 12:10:58 Kugelfang something that's a standard for where to put
things in a gentoo installation
Jan 11 12:11:11 Kugelfang i initally wanted to just make a little patch
for the devmanual
Jan 11 12:11:40 Kugelfang however, i've changed my mind and think that we
should have a proper document similar to the FHS document
Jan 11 12:11:47 * Calchan ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #gentoo-council
Jan 11 12:12:07 Kugelfang not as long as that, but one document that
says: these files belong here and not there
Jan 11 12:12:24 Kugelfang however, i think also that i'm not up to the
job, at least not alone
Jan 11 12:12:38 Kugelfang this is where Uber comes into the equations, as
i was going to ask him
Jan 11 12:12:56 Kugelfang Uber: are you interested in helping out on
that, as one of the primary baselayout maintainers?
Jan 11 12:13:02 * marienz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/developer/marienz) has
joined #gentoo-council
Jan 11 12:13:47 Kugelfang (I also take anybody else's help/input on
writing such a document :D)
Jan 11 12:13:49 Uber Kugelfang: i'm only really interested in keeping / as
small as we can - dont't really care where packages put things outside of that
Jan 11 12:13:57 Kugelfang nod
Jan 11 12:14:20 kloeri I like the idea of a proper document explaining all of
that as devs are quite often confused about some details
Jan 11 12:14:29 Uber but if you ask where I think something ought to go I'm
happy to give an opinion
Jan 11 12:14:41 Kugelfang Uber: nod, thank you
Jan 11 12:15:36 Kugelfang anybody who wants to help can just contact me
after this meeting so we can think on how to set it up
Jan 11 12:15:51 kingtaco|work robbat2, at the next break I do have one short
thing to bring up
Jan 11 12:16:07 robbat2 kingtaco|work, ok, after kugelfang's 3rd item
Jan 11 12:16:10 Kugelfang i have done some work on /usr/{local,libexec}
already, but there is a lot of stuff in the filesystem hierarchy :-(
Jan 11 12:16:11 kingtaco|work kk
Jan 11 12:16:28 Kugelfang that was point 2, i fnobody has anything to add
to it
Jan 11 12:16:36 robbat2 nope, sounds like a solid plan to me
Jan 11 12:16:57 Kugelfang point 3 would be: Diego stepping down as
developer and along that: stepping down as council member
Jan 11 12:17:08 kingtaco|work Kugelfang, that's my "-point"
Jan 11 12:17:12 kloeri Diego isn't retiring yet
Jan 11 12:17:13 Kugelfang kingtaco|work: pff
Jan 11 12:17:35 Kugelfang kloeri: well, i want to quote him from today
earlier in this channel
Jan 11 12:17:41 kloeri he's taking a two week vacation from Gentoo right now
to sort out his thoughts on all this
Jan 11 12:17:43 Kugelfang kloeri: (this might have changed in the
meantime though)
Jan 11 12:17:49 kloeri it has changed
Jan 11 12:17:59 Kugelfang kloeri: 12:17 <@FlAFKeyes> tonight I'll leave
uberlord to be my "proxy", as I hope not to be a dev anymore by that time anyway
Jan 11 12:18:01 kingtaco|work my only question there is according to the
metastructure glep, do we have to hold an election, can we bring someone in, or
do we take the #8 spot(uber)
Jan 11 12:18:03 Kugelfang kloeri: oh, ok
Jan 11 12:18:09 Kugelfang kloeri: that's cool :-)
Jan 11 12:18:10 robbat2 his blog post earlier clarified it a lot
Jan 11 12:18:18 kloeri seemant talked to him and they decided that a vacation
+ removing commit access meanwhile was the way to go for now
Jan 11 12:18:31 wolf31o2|mobile If/when he does... I think we just follow the
same guidelines the trustees initiated... go with the next guy in the vote...
Jan 11 12:18:35 Kugelfang as i said, i had been taking a nap before this
very meeting started, so i'm probably 1.5 hours back :-)
Jan 11 12:18:39 kloeri so I've removed his commit access and Diego seems very
happy about that decision
Jan 11 12:18:43 Kugelfang wolf31o2|mobile: excellent, that was my very
point
Jan 11 12:18:53 Kugelfang wolf31o2|mobile: incidently, this would be Uber
i think
Jan 11 12:19:00 wolf31o2|mobile it would be
Jan 11 12:19:03 kingtaco|work wolf31o2|mobile, someone should check that
that's what the glep proscribes
Jan 11 12:19:12 kloeri just don't elect a new council member before he's
actually retired :)
Jan 11 12:19:19 wolf31o2|mobile kingtaco|laptop: I think you just
volunteered.... ;]
Jan 11 12:19:24 wolf31o2|mobile kloeri: we aren't
Jan 11 12:19:31 Kugelfang kloeri: didn't want that, i just wanted to have
everything settled :-)
Jan 11 12:19:38 kloeri nod
Jan 11 12:19:51 Kugelfang kloeri: i'm not too fond of losing him in the
first place :-(
Jan 11 12:19:57 wolf31o2|mobile me, either
Jan 11 12:19:57 kloeri indeed
Jan 11 12:20:20 Kugelfang he's contributions are in the region of
vapier's from a monthly base, maybe a bit higher even
Jan 11 12:20:27 Kugelfang his
Jan 11 12:20:29 Kugelfang not he's
Jan 11 12:20:33 kloeri I hope a vacation will relieve some of the stress he's
been feeling the past few months and that he'll come back with a fresh view of
things
Jan 11 12:20:45 Kugelfang ok, there were my things for the table tonight
Jan 11 12:20:48 Kugelfang thank you very much
Jan 11 12:20:59 kloeri he's the top committer for 2006
Jan 11 12:21:12 wolf31o2|mobile Kugelfang: his are higher than vapier,
actually... he's over vapier for 2006 by like 4000... heh
Jan 11 12:21:16 wolf31o2|mobile kloeri has the stats
Jan 11 12:21:21 Kugelfang wolf31o2|mobile: aye
Jan 11 12:21:35 kloeri yeah, he's beating vapier by quite a few commits
Jan 11 12:21:36 kingtaco|work "If a council member who has been marked a
slacker misses any further meeting (or their appointed proxy doesn't show up),
they lose their position and a new election is held to replace that person. The
newly elected council member gets a 'reduced' term so that the yearly elections
still elect a full group."
Jan 11 12:21:38 Kugelfang wolf31o2|mobile: you know, this is the kind of
thing you deem impossible until you see it
Jan 11 12:21:56 Kugelfang kingtaco|work: yes, but this would be a
voluntary step down
Jan 11 12:22:00 Kugelfang kingtaco|work: if he does it
Jan 11 12:22:06 kingtaco|work Kugelfang, the glep doesn't address it
Jan 11 12:22:20 wolf31o2|mobile kingtaco|laptop: that covers slackers... not
someone leaving, though... we should clarify this and add it explicitly to the
document... even if we decide to use the same as the slacker boot
Jan 11 12:22:22 Kugelfang anyway, as he's not doing it, i'm all for
postponing that discussion, though i started it
Jan 11 12:22:23 kingtaco|work that's the closest thing in the glep
Jan 11 12:22:38 kingtaco|work Kugelfang, naw, we need to discuss it
Jan 11 12:22:53 robbat2 it will probably come up in future
Jan 11 12:22:59 Kugelfang nod
Jan 11 12:22:59 wolf31o2|mobile right
Jan 11 12:23:03 kingtaco|work anyway, we need to modify that glep for someone
who resigns
Jan 11 12:23:11 wolf31o2|mobile definitely
Jan 11 12:23:14 Kugelfang kingtaco|work: want to bring up a patch?
Jan 11 12:23:25 Kugelfang kingtaco|work: for discussion at next meeting?
Jan 11 12:23:32 kingtaco|work I don't have a preference personally, but the
glep seems to indicate that a new vote be done for anyone leaving
Jan 11 12:23:49 robbat2 i think email the question to -dev, and let's put it on
the agenda for next month
Jan 11 12:23:55 kingtaco|work ok
Jan 11 12:23:57 wolf31o2|mobile robbat2: good plan
Jan 11 12:23:58 kingtaco|work or -core
Jan 11 12:24:02 Kugelfang i would not like to do that, but rather use the
people next on the ballot
Jan 11 12:24:06 kingtaco|work it doesn't apply to non-gentoo dev
Jan 11 12:24:06 Kugelfang the original ballot
Jan 11 12:24:21 robbat2 i see pros and cons on both ideas
Jan 11 12:24:36 Uber we already discussed this before and I think we said we
could use the first ballot results
Jan 11 12:24:40 wolf31o2|mobile Kugelfang: that's my thought on it, too...
because we'd be down a man until the vote is done... which isn't the best
solution... but I also think it's a good idea for us to get some discussion on
it... likely, people will agree with us
Jan 11 12:24:49 kingtaco|work the "spirit" of the glep would be to hold
another election
Jan 11 12:24:50 Kugelfang wolf31o2|mobile: nod
Jan 11 12:25:06 Kugelfang kingtaco|work: that doesn't me we can't change
it
Jan 11 12:25:09 Kugelfang mean
Jan 11 12:25:18 kingtaco|work Kugelfang, no doubt
Jan 11 12:25:24 kloeri discussing on -dev or -core is a good idea imo
Jan 11 12:25:29 kingtaco|work I think another election is silly
Jan 11 12:25:29 wolf31o2|mobile kingtaco|work: yeah... but it might be a good
idea to get a finger on the current pulse of Gentoo and decide...
Jan 11 12:25:29 kingtaco|work ok
Jan 11 12:25:31 robbat2 recalling the original ballot, taking the next person
down has issues when there are ties
Jan 11 12:25:32 Kugelfang robbat2: i return the mic to you
Jan 11 12:25:35 kingtaco|work I'll spearhead that
Jan 11 12:25:41 robbat2 ok, my turn for items now
Jan 11 12:25:42 kingtaco|work delayed until next month
Jan 11 12:26:08 robbat2 1. the bugzilla migration went very well as everybody
can see, there's a few minor bits to pick up, but they will be done over the
next week or so
Jan 11 12:26:18 Kugelfang yeah, very nice work!
Jan 11 12:26:29 Kugelfang thanks to all people involved :-)
Jan 11 12:26:33 wolf31o2|mobile yeah... can we give
kingtaco|laptop/robbat2/everyone else a big woop! woop!
Jan 11 12:26:35 kloeri new bugzilla++
Jan 11 12:26:43 robbat2 2. there's work on a new CVS server after the storm
problems at OSU previously, no actual timeline yet
Jan 11 12:26:45 wolf31o2|mobile excellent job, guys
Jan 11 12:26:48 Uber yeah, maybe jakub will be happy for once - I know I am
happy with bugs now :)
Jan 11 12:26:53 Kugelfang Big Whoop?
Jan 11 12:27:02 robbat2 thanks all :-)
Jan 11 12:27:02 wolf31o2|mobile Kugelfang: praise
Jan 11 12:27:15 robbat2 3. the SPF bug....
Jan 11 12:27:17 Kugelfang wolf31o2|mobile: pun in regard to monkey island!
Jan 11 12:27:28 Kugelfang robbat2: right
Jan 11 12:27:32 * Kugelfang looks at kloeri :-P
Jan 11 12:27:48 wolf31o2|mobile heh... that was one I was going to bring up...
status on SPF/Reply-to docs...
Jan 11 12:28:23 robbat2 SPF and reply-to are seperate items
Jan 11 12:28:34 wolf31o2|mobile yes
Jan 11 12:28:39 wolf31o2|mobile I meant there's two items
Jan 11 12:28:42 wolf31o2|mobile the status on each
Jan 11 12:28:47 kloeri I still have some nearly finished docs sitting on my
laptop but have been more busy looking for a new job and taking care flameeyes
and the sudden loss of our only apache maintainer
Jan 11 12:29:03 kloeri I'll finish my doc after the meeting
Jan 11 12:29:09 Kugelfang kloeri: cool
Jan 11 12:29:14 robbat2 kloeri, could you attach the drafts even to that bug?
Jan 11 12:29:24 wolf31o2|mobile kloeri: you've got one week or we take away
your swipe card for the soft-serve ice cream machine
Jan 11 12:29:28 robbat2 if you don't get a chance to finish them that is
Jan 11 12:29:31 kingtaco|pda apache?
Jan 11 12:29:32 kloeri sure
Jan 11 12:29:43 Kugelfang kloeri: i promise to look over it from
viewpoint of the user I am :-D
Jan 11 12:29:46 kloeri yes, vericgar retired about a week ago
Jan 11 12:29:53 kingtaco|pda ah
Jan 11 12:30:00 kloeri leaving me (at that point) as the only remaining apache
team member
Jan 11 12:30:29 robbat2 i didn't see any retire notice in the GWN or on the
lists?
Jan 11 12:30:34 kloeri fortunately chtekk and phreak both stepped up quickly
to help me and we're squashing bugs at a very nice rate
Jan 11 12:30:39 kingtaco|pda why cant gdp do it
Jan 11 12:30:56 kloeri no, he just announced it in #-apache and I haven't sent
it to GWN yet
Jan 11 12:31:41 kloeri people announce retirement in all kinds of crazy ways -
random irc channels, /msg'ing me etc.
Jan 11 12:31:42 robbat2 ok, just attach them to the bug when you're ready with
them
Jan 11 12:31:52 kloeri will do
Jan 11 12:31:54 robbat2 i have one more item on my list
Jan 11 12:32:02 robbat2 4. Agenda management
Jan 11 12:32:25 robbat2 could everybody just try and do a braindump on the
council ML a day or two ahead of the meeting?
Jan 11 12:32:41 kingtaco|work it'd be nice
Jan 11 12:32:47 Kugelfang yes, sorry
Jan 11 12:32:47 robbat2 nothing fancy, just for own notes
Jan 11 12:32:52 Kugelfang didn't think about it
Jan 11 12:33:13 kloeri agreed, we need to do that
Jan 11 12:33:19 robbat2 if you think it's a bigger issue, bring it up earlier
on -core/-dev, but for simple stuff like today, just braindump to -council
Jan 11 12:33:49 Kugelfang somebody volunteering to prod me to it the
mondays before we have meeting? :-P
Jan 11 12:34:02 robbat2 ok, i'll try to send out reminders ;-)
Jan 11 12:34:18 * Kugelfang has electrocution prdo-sticks to give away
Jan 11 12:34:23 Kugelfang prod-sticks
Jan 11 12:34:25 robbat2 SpanKY, last call before we mark you as a slacker
Jan 11 12:34:31 robbat2 vapier ping too
Jan 11 12:34:45 Kugelfang 3
Jan 11 12:34:46 Kugelfang 2
Jan 11 12:34:47 Kugelfang 1
Jan 11 12:34:50 Kugelfang -out-
Jan 11 12:35:18 robbat2 Uber: is there anything you wanted to bring up on
behalf of Flameeyes?
Jan 11 12:35:42 Uber robbat2: nope. I was kinda ropped into this at the last
minute
Jan 11 12:36:10 kloeri thanks for stepping up at such short notice
Jan 11 12:36:25 Uber np
Jan 11 12:36:25 robbat2 yeah, many thanks for being able to drop in
Jan 11 12:36:32 Kugelfang Uber: nah, you got time for Diego, but when
you're going to met me you go for honeymoon instead!
Jan 11 12:36:38 Kugelfang Uber: you're a friend! *rant*
Jan 11 12:36:46 Kugelfang meet
Jan 11 12:36:46 robbat2 vapier, i'm not giving your alter-ego a second chance
Jan 11 12:36:51 wolf31o2|mobile heh
Jan 11 12:36:52 robbat2 wolf31o2, your turn
Jan 11 12:36:55 Uber heh
Jan 11 12:36:56 robbat2 you mentioned Reply-To earlier?
Jan 11 12:37:05 wolf31o2|mobile yeah... what's the status on that doc?
Jan 11 12:37:15 robbat2 absolutely nothing according to that bug
Jan 11 12:37:21 wolf31o2|mobile heh
Jan 11 12:37:27 robbat2 bug 154595
Jan 11 12:37:37 robbat2 hmm, no jeeves in here
Jan 11 12:37:42 wolf31o2|mobile should I just write one up and guidexml it?
there's not much to it
Jan 11 12:38:02 robbat2 i wanted to raise question with it
Jan 11 12:38:08 wolf31o2|mobile ok
Jan 11 12:38:08 robbat2 why don't we make more use of Mail-Followup-To?
Jan 11 12:38:18 wolf31o2|mobile not a clue
Jan 11 12:38:27 kingtaco|work I think it was all covered
Jan 11 12:38:41 kingtaco|work one can use procmail to munge the headers
however one likes
Jan 11 12:38:42 * jeeves ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/developer/jeeves) has joined
#gentoo-council
Jan 11 12:38:46 * kingtaco|work gives voice to jeeves
Jan 11 12:38:49 * wolf31o2|mobile gives voice to jeeves
Jan 11 12:39:05 Kugelfang thanks for solar's quick reaction
Jan 11 12:39:13 robbat2 jeeves, bug 154595
Jan 11 12:39:15 jeeves robbat2: https://bugs.gentoo.org/154595 nor, P2, All,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED], NEW, pending, Document how to change
reply-to headers on gentoo lists
Jan 11 12:39:41 wolf31o2|mobile yeah... I munge out the reply-to if it matches
the "to:"
Jan 11 12:40:11 wolf31o2|mobile so I can "reply to sender" and "reply to list"
without having to manually type addresses or remove junk
Jan 11 12:40:51 wolf31o2|mobile anyway... if nobody has any objections, I'll
draft something up and post it to the bug for discussion
Jan 11 12:40:56 wolf31o2|mobile sound good?
Jan 11 12:40:58 robbat2 sure
Jan 11 12:41:08 kloeri fine
Jan 11 12:41:26 wolf31o2|mobile ok...
Jan 11 12:41:35 robbat2 wolf31o2, any more items?
Jan 11 12:41:41 wolf31o2|mobile so now my other idea/proposal/whatever...
Jan 11 12:42:03 Kugelfang wolf31o2|mobile: ice cream machine for the
council lounge?
Jan 11 12:42:11 wolf31o2|mobile I was thinking of us starting some projects of
our own... that are "council run" for specific tasks... I'll give you a
(completely fictional) example
Jan 11 12:42:13 wolf31o2|mobile heh
Jan 11 12:43:52 wolf31o2|mobile let's say we wanted to create a tool, let's,
for the sake of argument, say it is a GUI portage front-end... so, the Council
would start the project, and we would "recruit" via the GWN, etc... the people
whom we recruit could be devs or not... doesn't matter... they get access to
some repo specifically for the project... they work for us, which means they
aren't necessarily Gentoo developers... (though they could be... that po
Jan 11 12:43:52 wolf31o2|mobile int isn't that important)
Jan 11 12:44:32 kingtaco|work how does this differ from what we currently do
for things like the installer
Jan 11 12:44:42 kingtaco|work and why us as opposed to some other group
Jan 11 12:44:42 wolf31o2|mobile anyway... we recruit... we get people... they
start writing code... basically, we start managing some new code that is for
Gentoo, rather than just packaging up other people's stuff... I'd imagine it
would all pretty much be Gentoo-specific, for the most part
Jan 11 12:44:45 robbat2 and anybody else starting a project for that matter
Jan 11 12:44:55 wolf31o2|mobile kingtaco|laptop: it really isn't different than
the installer...
Jan 11 12:45:06 wolf31o2|mobile and why us? because I don't see anyone else
doing it... and we're the elected leaders
Jan 11 12:45:29 wolf31o2|mobile I mean, we have installer/scire... which are
great examples of this
Jan 11 12:45:31 kingtaco|work ok, so we take the initiative, not attempting
to exclude others from doing the same
Jan 11 12:45:36 wolf31o2|mobile correct
Jan 11 12:45:38 kingtaco|work ok
Jan 11 12:45:46 wolf31o2|mobile if someone wants to create a project, they're
more than welcome to
Jan 11 12:45:51 robbat2 the only problem I see with that, is people wanting
more direction from council on where each project should go
Jan 11 12:46:07 wolf31o2|mobile the idea here being is we can identify places
where we need improvement
Jan 11 12:46:20 wolf31o2|mobile well... that's what we would do... steer the
project(s) that we create
Jan 11 12:46:46 wolf31o2|mobile like, we would come up with the project, and
idea of what we want it to do, etc and try to keep the recruits on task
Jan 11 12:47:20 Uber so basically the council is an ideas think tank?
Jan 11 12:47:33 wolf31o2|mobile yes... and we can always take ideas from other
people
Jan 11 12:47:45 wolf31o2|mobile like... let's say you had a great idea, but
didn't have time to lead the project
Jan 11 12:47:50 kingtaco|pda more of formalizing what we already do
Jan 11 12:48:02 wolf31o2|mobile we could do it as a team, rather than letting
the great idea die on the vine
Jan 11 12:48:05 wolf31o2|mobile yeah
Jan 11 12:49:07 wolf31o2|mobile now, antarus brings up a point... he says "in
my experience you can't direct a project unless you are actively contributing,
so the project members are free to ignore your suggestions/direction"
Jan 11 12:49:09 robbat2 i do certainly find the concept interesting, however I
wonder how this would impact our time availability as it stands
Jan 11 12:49:44 wolf31o2|mobile well... there's a solution to that... we "fire"
them... I know it sounds a bit rash... but that's the reason why we don't
require people be devs... they're "contractors" so to speak... there to do a
job (at their own pace, of coure)
Jan 11 12:50:14 wolf31o2|mobile robbat2: no clue... but I figure we could try
it out... get some ideas for a project that might not be too difficult from the
community and try it
Jan 11 12:50:16 kloeri time availability would be one of my concerns but I
like the idea of more actively steering projects (or helping to steer projects
where needed)
Jan 11 12:50:36 robbat2 so the directions are more of requirements in the
project planning scope of things, more formal software development process
Jan 11 12:51:11 wolf31o2|mobile robbat2: correct
Jan 11 12:51:13 kloeri I'm sometimes doing the same thing with bugday where I
hire (more or less) random users to help with a specific project
Jan 11 12:51:38 kloeri works fairly well for bugday but that's very small
projects though
Jan 11 12:51:55 wolf31o2|mobile robbat2: we're recruiting for a task... not a
general developer "position"
Jan 11 12:51:56 robbat2 wolf31o2|mobile, I do have one direct question. how do
you ensure these projects don't stagnate?
Jan 11 12:52:10 wolf31o2|mobile yeah... as I said... we'd want to find
something smaller to see if it is even feasible
Jan 11 12:52:14 wolf31o2|mobile might be we simply can't manage it
Jan 11 12:52:16 robbat2 and how to handle long term maintence too
Jan 11 12:52:48 wolf31o2|mobile robbat2: well... as the "management" for it, we
try to find new blood if things seem to be stagnating... there's *loads* of
people who want to help Gentoo, but don't know how
Jan 11 12:53:04 robbat2 i'd like to point out that there is a limited precedent
for such an idea
Jan 11 12:53:32 robbat2 back in the day of drobbins, he and releng identified
some specific objectives that needed completion
Jan 11 12:53:41 robbat2 and sought people to complete them
Jan 11 12:53:48 robbat2 i wrote the genflags package for one of those
Jan 11 12:54:10 robbat2 code mostly useless now, but it had well defined
requirements
Jan 11 12:54:15 wolf31o2|mobile heh
Jan 11 12:54:50 robbat2 1. must run from a minimal livecd (bash only). 2. take
all input it can find about a system (cpuinfo etc). 3. spit out recommended
CFLAGS/CHOST
Jan 11 12:55:09 wolf31o2|mobile yeah... that's the exact kind of thing I mean
Jan 11 12:55:12 robbat2 that's simplifying it a bit, but the important thing is
that there was a precedent
Jan 11 12:55:21 Kugelfang i'm no opposed to that, so let's try it out
once the first need arises
Jan 11 12:55:34 wolf31o2|mobile well... I'm going to suggest we call for ideas
on -dev
Jan 11 12:55:43 wolf31o2|mobile see what comes up... and try to pick one we
think we can attain
Jan 11 12:55:47 robbat2 note that they should be small ideas
Jan 11 12:55:50 Kugelfang this fits very well in the category 'Gentoo
Hosted Projects' :-)
Jan 11 12:55:51 robbat2 not grand projects
Jan 11 12:55:54 wolf31o2|mobile yes
Jan 11 12:56:33 robbat2 wolf31o2|mobile, ok, it's your idea, so if you'd like
to spearhead asking for ideas and bringing them back for the next meeting, i'm
all game
Jan 11 12:56:39 robbat2 i don't think it needs a vote at all
Jan 11 12:56:41 wolf31o2|mobile cool
Jan 11 12:56:49 wolf31o2|mobile yeah... I just wanted feedback on it, really
Jan 11 12:57:09 kloeri no, just go ahead
Jan 11 12:57:15 Kugelfang jupp
Jan 11 12:57:32 Kugelfang vapier: kind-of-last-call!
Jan 11 12:57:32 robbat2 any further issues from anybody, or shall we open the
floor?
Jan 11 12:58:07 kloeri no further issues from me
Jan 11 12:58:10 robbat2 going once
Jan 11 12:58:10 kingtaco|work can the foundation afford to buy sealand?
Jan 11 12:58:11 Kugelfang nope
Jan 11 12:58:14 kingtaco|work :p
Jan 11 12:58:26 kingtaco|work </joke>
Jan 11 12:58:27 wolf31o2|mobile kingtaco|work: not yet...
Jan 11 12:58:31 Kugelfang kingtaco|work: to set up the council's lounge
and ice-cream machine?
Jan 11 12:58:38 robbat2 bug the foundation for financials reports, there
haven't been any in a long time
Jan 11 12:58:38 kingtaco|work hehe
Jan 11 12:59:00 kingtaco|work wolf31o2|mobile, can you have someone over
there work on the financial reports?
Jan 11 12:59:00 robbat2 we should have made a fair mint from our SoC payouts
Jan 11 12:59:03 Kugelfang who's going to mark vapier as a slacker?
Jan 11 12:59:08 wolf31o2|mobile robbat2: check -nfp archives... we need to
clean it up... but there's a fairly recent one there
Jan 11 12:59:12 kingtaco|work I'd like to see them too
Jan 11 12:59:15 kingtaco|work cool
Jan 11 12:59:25 wolf31o2|mobile kingtaco|work: I think there is someone working
on it... I can check
Jan 11 12:59:31 kingtaco|work kk
Jan 11 12:59:49 kingtaco|work nothing from me
Jan 11 12:59:51 kingtaco|work open it up
Jan 11 12:59:59 * Kugelfang sets mode -m #gentoo-council
Jan 11 13:00:15 robbat2 wolf31o2|mobile, got a link for that email?
Jan 11 13:00:18 antarus wolf31o2|mobile: I'm working on einspect, but I'd
probably have to gather more reqs
Jan 11 13:00:23 robbat2 i don't see it in the public archives at a glance
Jan 11 13:00:24 * Kugelfang goes to mark vapier :-/
Jan 11 13:00:35 wolf31o2|mobile robbat2: not off the top of my head... let me
check
Jan 11 13:00:38 wolf31o2|mobile antarus: einspect?
Jan 11 13:00:40 robbat2 anybody want to volunteer for the summary?
Jan 11 13:00:40 Kugelfang i hope it's all good with him
Jan 11 13:00:57 antarus wolf31o2|mobile: basically einspect
[--local,--profile,--repository] -p sys-apps/portage
Jan 11 13:01:11 antarus gives you informatoin like "what about your local
configuration affects sys-apps/portage
Jan 11 13:01:25 antarus what about your profile affects sys-apps/portage...what
about the repo affects sys-apps/portage..
Jan 11 13:01:36 antarus Users often get confused because fex, something is in
.mask and unmask
Jan 11 13:01:40 antarus and this would list that
Jan 11 13:01:44 antarus among other things ;P
Jan 11 13:02:24 kingtaco|work robbat2, side note, what's the deal with the
nagios warnings about mysql on bugs
Jan 11 13:02:57 wolf31o2|mobile antarus: ahh... nice
Jan 11 13:02:57 robbat2 kingtaco|laptop, me working on dunlin after it lost
sync, just need to do it properly (read get mylvmbackup into the tree) rather
than a hack fix
Jan 11 13:03:10 kingtaco|work ok
Jan 11 13:03:19 kingtaco|work can we turn off notifications for it in the
meantime?
Jan 11 13:03:49 robbat2 kingtaco|work, if you have access to nagios, please ACK
both mysql notifications for dunlin yes
Jan 11 13:03:54 robbat2 leave the one for peafowl
Jan 11 13:04:09 wolf31o2|mobile robbat2: financials start here:
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-nfp/msg_01207.xml
Jan 11 13:04:34 * Kugelfang gone, have a new recuirt
Jan 11 13:04:46 kingtaco|work robbat2, I have access to the host I'm sure(not
that I know which one) but I don't know how to ack it
Jan 11 13:05:01 kingtaco|work I'll poke lance to train me
Jan 11 13:05:53 wolf31o2|mobile kingtaco|laptop: hit it w/ a browser... find
the offending host/service by selecting "Service Problems"... then select
"Acknowledge this service problem"
Jan 11 13:10:59 kloeri no further questions? guess the meeting is finished then
Jan 11 13:11:05 wolf31o2|mobile yup
Jan 11 13:11:09 wolf31o2|mobile adjourned
Jan 11 13:11:31 kingtaco|work done
Jan 11 13:12:18 Uber *gone
Jan 11 13:12:23 * Uber ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has left #gentoo-council
Jan 11 13:12:26 robbat2 i'll post the log and summary shortly
Jan 11 13:12:37 wolf31o2|mobile =]
Jan 11 13:12:48 robbat2 but somebody else gets to do it next time
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