On Sat, 2007-07-14 at 20:20 +1000, Will Briggs wrote: > > But -dev is where the substantial discussion takes place. -dev would > still be the "inside loop." And a community based project simply should > not exclude/reduce (even simply in perception) the community's > involvement in that loop.
Well forgetting list names for a second. Put the problem another way. There is no list at the moment, internal developers could use to communicate only with other internal developers. Sure we could use -core, but that's more for private stuff. Devs might want to interact directly with other devs, without any outside input. But do it in a transparent manner to keep the community informed and a part of the process. Just not a part with input. That does not mean the community is excluded. It's just sometimes you can have to many opinions, and the ones a times that matter the most are the ones actually doing the work. Which in turn become responsible for it. > Correct me if I'm reading you wrong but you seem, in your choice of > words, to be relegating non-devs to being "outside of the Gentoo > project." And that is exactly the attitude we need to steer clear of, > and exactly the DNA that this proposal would inject. It's just levels of separation as the organization grows. It's not an attitude of separation, it's organization. It's not meant personally. Fact is there are those inside the project and those outside. That's not a good or bad thing, just how things are. There is no means for those inside to work directly with each others without outside influence. Not that the outside influence is not wanted, that's not the point at all. It's purely about focus. If we see a problem say on -dev, in the future. We know that's an internal problem devs are trying to resolve or etc. Likely to get more focus and/or prioritization. Fact is -dev's volume is getting to the point where it's productivity is diminishing. Both with dev <-> dev and dev <-> world. The entire idea here is to help correct that and makes things BETTER :) Many will admit there are big problems now. This is just one attempt, one way to address it. > I love/admire/adore/have great gratitude for our developers. They are > certainly part of this project. But, even as a lowly user - I am also. FYI, every developer was a user at some point. In many ways they still are. This by no means is intended to diminish, cut off, control, etc any user input. That would effectively cut off any future recruiting efforts. Which is not the idea at all. -- William L. Thomson Jr. Gentoo/Java
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