On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 08:37:42 -0800 > Donnie Berkholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Open and public debate about the right way to do things does take >> longer, and it's something you certainly participate in quite >> frequently so I'm surprised to hear you badmouth it when it comes to >> your own ideas. > > Open and public debate requires two or more well informed parties who > are seeking to reach the best solution regardless of who proposed it, > and a deciding body who are prepared to go for the best solution even > if it isn't universally popular. This sometimes happens with Gentoo, > but unfortunately all too often it's one of these instead: > > * A good proposal gets a few incorrect objections from people who > don't understand it and aren't prepared to put in the effort to > become well informed. The Council then uses these objections as an > excuse to sit on the proposal and do nothing for months, because > making a decision is harder than maintaining the status quo. > > * A good proposal gets a whole load of silly, trivial and nonsensical > objections from sockpuppeting trolls who don't like the people who > came up with the proposal (or sometimes from sockpuppeting trolls who > suspect that the person who came up with the proposal once spoke to > the cousin of a cleaner who once worked for the nephew of someone who > said that the proposal looked sensible...). The Council do not > dismiss these objections because they don't want to risk upsetting > anyone. > > * A good proposal comes along. Its proof of concept implementation is > done using a project that is considered by some to risk upsetting the > status quo. A bunch of people who are involved in the proposal get > fired. > > * A proposal gets implemented without the debate. It's either a lousy > proposal that we're then stuck with, or a decent proposal that has a > few flaws that could have been addressed. > > This is the kind of 'open and public debate' one would expect from a > failing government trying to cling to power for a few more years or a > middle-management-heavy corporation on its last legs. It's fine if you > want to repaint the bikeshed a slightly nicer shade of magenta, but > it's a real nuisance for anything serious. > > None of the people involved in the decision to fork eselect rather than > work on it for Gentoo are anything except entirely in favour of open and > public debate. It's just that they don't exactly have a positive > experience of that happening within Gentoo... > > -- > Ciaran McCreesh >
Reminds me so much of http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/12/05/the-linux-desktops-change-problem/
