On 04/09/2010 05:51 PM, Dror Levin wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 21:05, Denis Dupeyron <calc...@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Ben de Groot <yng...@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>> So all I'm asking is to do your job and make decisions on issues that
>>> affect all of Gentoo. The issues I brought up are wider than a single
>>> individual project.
>> And almost 100% of the time this needs to run through a GLEP, which is
>> the case here. Then the council will do all the things you've pasted
>> from GLEP 39
> I thought the council was a body that should be capable of action, not
> merely one that gives a stamp of approval for stuff other people do.
> Was I wrong?

It's capable of action if the members want to take it.

> Reading all your manifestos from the elections shows you all had
> things you wanted to do, things you wanted to change (git migration,
> forming a group of experts to discuss technical issues, QA
> propagation, just to name a few). Where did all that go to? If all the
> council is currently able to do is get everybody involved in
> bureaucracy (e.g. writing GLEPs for centralizing documentation instead
> of putting a page full of links) just so it could meet once a month to
> decide on bugzilla resolutions, then something is wrong.

Let's see my manifesto:
- EAPIs: council is not the blocker
- Meetings: there will be a web application most likely in GSoC

> All council members not only volunteered for that position, but also
> had other people voting for them. Didn't you do that so you could have
> a larger influence? So you could make Gentoo better? How do you plan
> to achieve that if you just wait for other people to do it? I don't
> see why there is such strong opposition by your side to actually do
> something, after all, that's what you're there for.

I said in my manifesto that Gentoo is not my first priority so you get
what you vote for :)

> Ben raised some very painful issues which hurt Gentoo daily but are
> not being addressed for a long time. The way I see it, the council's
> job is to lead Gentoo, and that includes things that individual
> members may not find interesting. These are global issues which are
> under the council's responsibility. Gentoo's best interest should be
> in mind, not personal interests, and so the council should strive to
> achieve all those things so that Gentoo may benefit from it. That's
> what leadership is, and that's what your job is.

Many of the points Ben raised are doable by any single developer who
wants to do the work. Just show up with the code/patches.

> Let's take redesigning the homepage as an example. Our website has the
> same design since at least 2002, and to users it looks dead. This is
> seriously hurting Gentoo, and its inability to fix the situation has
> become a laughing stock. Clearly, Gentoo as a whole suffers and it's
> the council's responsibility to address this issue. Now, I'm not
> saying that council members should sit around all day playing with
> CSS, but this issue should be one of their top priorities. Maybe ask
> for users to help, reward a volunteer to do it with funds from the
> foundation, heck maybe even pay some company to do it, but just do
> something, even though you may not think dealing with this is
> interesting, but a response like "if you want it then work on it and
> make it happen" is unacceptable.

Just petition the trustees to spend money on it. I guess Debian is dying
too then:


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