On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 4:36 AM Sergei Trofimovich <sly...@gentoo.org> wrote: > > On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 00:43:03 -0400 > Aaron Bauman <b...@gentoo.org> wrote: > > > # Aaron Bauman <b...@gentoo.org> (2020-06-20) > > # Py2 only > > # Removal in 14 days > ... > > app-misc/golly > > If you decided to delete a maintained package you should file a bug against > the maintainer. Otherwise they won't see the effect until mask hits the users.
So, I get that the python mess has been a ton of work for those involved, and mostly thankless work. You get complaints from people who are interested in a particular package, but not with maintaining the vast number of packages in an old python implementation that probably isn't as interesting to people interested in python for the sake of python. As such I don't really question the removal of v2 from the tree. I also don't question the phased approach of progressively fixing, removing packages, etc. This sort of thing should be done at the convenience of the python team, who do a ton of work behind the scenes that keeps the whole distro working. I would suggest that process-wise there are some things that could be done to make this sort of thing smoother in the future (and please understand that this is intended as a lessons-learned and not so much as criticism): 1. Just follow the standard policies like ulm suggested and pick 30 days. You're already doing something that is going to get complaints. Waiting two weeks at this point won't make much difference. Of course exceptions can be made for pressing security issues/etc, and if these exist just mention them up-front to deflect criticism. 2. Help maintainers help you. Ideally that means opening a ton of bugs on day 1 of this whole mess against all the impacted packages. I get that this isn't easy. An alternative might be to post lists of impacted packages on -dev periodically, and when you do this stick the maintainers on the list. A lot of maintainers maintain a lot of packages, and they probably won't notice if a package they maintain is on the list, but if you stick their name on the list they can just grep it. I bet a lot of maintainers would pitch in if they just realized they needed to. I've seen lots of bugs that say "fix this, oh and fix anything else you might happen to have with the same problem." The problem with this is that the people cleaning up python probably have scripts to go detecting impacted packages, but everybody else in the distro doesn't, and it doesn't make sense to have 100 devs all trying to figure out if they have a package with a particular issue, especially if the package has a quiet upstream that doesn't do a lot of bumps. I get that this won't fix the entire problem. You'll get that stubborn dev that just refuses to fix a bug. When that happens don't waste your time fighting WW3 - just point out that packages depending on v2 will get masked on $DATE and move on, and ideally get the Council to bless your decision. If the Council doesn't bless the decision or a compromise you can live with then just remove v2 from the python project and make it maintainer-needed, and thus somebody else's problem. Don't put the weight of the world on your shoulders - when it comes to actual work focus on the stuff that is directly python and make the rest of us do the rest, but you need to spend a bit of time around engagement. A bit of up-front bug-filing or list posts might save you a ton of harassing later. The rest of us do need to appreciate that this is fairly thankless work. Maybe python v2 COULD be supported longer. But are YOU stepping up to do that? The existing members of the python team aren't obligated to keep v2 in the tree. Indeed, they aren't obligated to maintain python at all. Of course if some are willing to do the work to keep v2 around then we should find a way to allow them to do so, but I don't really see that happening. Now I'm sure I didn't appreciate some things that happened behind the scenes. Accept what makes sense and reject that which does not. And by all means feel free to share lessons-learned that others might benefit from. I don't want to turn this into a criticism thread/etc, so I'd encourage others to refrain from doing so... -- Rich