On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:07 PM Aaron Bauman <b...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 04:21:14PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> >
> > We're removing python2 around <date>.  You can help us out by updating
> > any packages you have that use python2.  If you want to easily
> > identify these packages just do <insert quick script here>.
> >
> > I think the problem here is that we're basically telling maintainers
> > that the beatings will continue until morale improves.  Then we're
> > wondering why nothing is getting done.
> >
> I am thoroughly confused here. Some how you have completely changed your
> opinion from previous posts.

Perhaps we failed to communicate then.  My opinion has always been this:

I support letting the python team manage the versions of python
available - if people want legacy versions to stick around they need
to do something to make it happen.

HOWEVER, the python team would also find its job much easier if they
partnered with the myriad of package maintainers to accomplish their
goals, instead of just throwing them over the fence and then breaking
things for users to try to get everybody's attention periodically.

> Of all the methods listed in the previous posts, the QA reports, etc.
> there is no excuse individuals can't find out if their package is py2
> only.

None of those methods were posted until a day or two ago, and the
python team has done nothing to actually ensure all the impacted
maintainers are aware of them.  Perhaps a communication to
-dev-announce with the preferred approach would be better?

You can't expect every Gentoo dev to independently cobble together a
bunch of scripts to go hunting for py2 reverse deps.

> Ironically, it would be a very sad state if an individual doesn't know
> what Python interpreter their package is compatible with. This is the
> essence of "maintainer" status, correct?

Maintainers generally care about what the package does, and how it
does it is a means to an end.  Sure, some care more about the build
system and dependencies than others, and when working on a package you
need to pay more attention to such things.  However, I suspect most
package maintainers do not know off the top of their head the
dependency list of all their packages.

> Obviously, the myriad of tools, ML threads, and all the other "avenues"
> individual developers have taken to alert others simply doesn't work...
> until something is p.masked... people don't budge.

At least some devs here seemed surprised about the masks.  Did you try
filing a bug?

Masking something for all users is basically like torturing a kitten
to get the attention of its owner.  It is a necessary step if the
package is actually to be removed.  I don't think it is even allowable
under our policies if no bug was filed.

But if filing bugs is painful at least make things easier on
maintainers.  Post a list of packages and owners, for example.

It just seems like you're making things harder on yourself.  Gentoo
has done countless migrations like this and for whatever reason in the
past creating a tracker and blocker bugs hasn't been a problem.

I don't think the community will be served by having the python team
work itself into a frenzy until they ragequit.  Just give in, send out
a -announce post, and maybe cut your workload in half at least.  I get
that you seem to want to stand on some kind of principle that
everybody in Gentoo should care about the py2 migration as much as you
do, but it probably isn't going to happen.  Help everybody else help


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