Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> On 2012-12-25, Dale wrote:
>
>>
>> Quoting from Gentoo news item:
> Which was exactly the thing I was commenting on above, ok.
>
> [...]
>> Now are you saying the Gentoo devs are lying to us? Careful now. Could
>> end up on a slippery slope and bump your head. That says anything BEFORE
>> 181 boots fine with a separate /usr, 181 or anything after does not.
>> Simple enough for you yet?
> It does indeed say that, but fails to provide any explanation on *why*.
>
> And, the exact point I made above is that the URL they give points to an
> explanation on something completely unrelated to the issue the news item
> is about.
>
> Further, that news item *claims* that booting with a separate /usr will
> break with >=udev-181. So far, *nobody* was able to explain why that
> would happen, not even that news item. The only thing people have been
> able to do on this mailing list regarding this news item is "here it is,
> that's why it will break".
>
> Allow me to exemplify the exchange you and others are making here
>
> 10: A: ">=udev-181 will break boots with separate /usr"
> 20: B: "Why?"
> 30: A: "Because >=udev-181 will break boots with separate /usr"
> 40: B: "But why?"
> 50: A: "Because we say so"
> 60: GOTO 20
>
> I don't have any reason to believe anyone is lying, and that's why,
> instead of accusing people of lying, I decided to simply ask people here
> for some explanations.
>
> Now if the answers I've got here make me believe this whole udev mess is
> more about someone saying it will break and everybody blindly believing
> it does break. Regardless of whether it actually breaks or not.
>
>
>> I might add, I have ALWAYS had a separate /usr. Darn near a decade
>> now. It has never failed to boot because /usr was on a separate
>> partition. NOT ONCE. Now I am told it is going to fail. Go figure.
>> Go try to tell me that it was broken all these years. Yea, right.
> Would it be too much trouble to ask you to share the output of
>
> egrep 'usb-db|pci-db|FROM_DATABASE|/usr' /*/udev/rules.d/*
>
> and the version of udev you're running? I'm curious to see. Of course
> that, if you don't have some packages installing their udev rules, you
> may not have the issue at all. But maybe you have, so why don't we give
> it a try?
>
> Also, if you actually read the linked URL, it does explain it won't fail
> to boot. You do realize these are two different issues here, right? One
> is people saying that udev-181 will fail to boot, other is the issue
> described on the URL linked on the news item, which is about stuff in
> /usr breaking udev rules, which has been around for a long time and will
> *silently* fail. I remind you that "silently fail" implies that your
> system will still boot, even if it is affected by the issue.
root@fireball / # egrep 'usb-db|pci-db|FROM_DATABASE|/usr' /*/udev/rules.d/*
/lib64/udev/rules.d/10-dm.rules:# Set proper sbin path, /sbin has higher
priority than /usr/sbin.
/lib64/udev/rules.d/10-dm.rules:TEST!="$env{DM_SBIN_PATH}/dmsetup",
ENV{DM_SBIN_PATH}="/usr/sbin"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/56-hpmud_add_printer.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb",
ENV{DEVTYPE}=="usb_device", ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="????", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c 'logger -p user.info
loading HP Device $env{BUSNUM} $env{DEVNUM}'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c
'/usr/bin/hp-config_usb_printer $env{BUSNUM}:$env{DEVNUM} &'"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/56-hpmud_add_printer.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb_device",
ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0", ATTRS{idProduct}=="????", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c
'X=%k; X=$${X#usbdev}; B=$${X%%%%.*}; D=$${X#*.}; logger -p user.info
loading HP Device $$B $$D; printf %%03i:%%03i $$B $$D'", RUN+="/bin/sh
-c '/usr/bin/hp-config_usb_printer %c &'"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/56-hpmud_support.rules:ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??17", RUN+="/bin/sh -c 'hp_model=%E{ID_MODEL}
/usr/bin/hp-mkuri -c &'"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/56-hpmud_support.rules:ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??2a", RUN+="/bin/sh -c 'hp_model=%E{ID_MODEL}
/usr/bin/hp-mkuri -c &'"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/56-hpmud_support.rules:ENV{hp_test}=="yes",
RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/usr/bin/hp-mkuri -c &'"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/75-net-description.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="usb",
ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="usb-db %p"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/75-net-description.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="pci",
ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="pci-db %p"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/75-tty-description.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="usb",
ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="usb-db %p"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/75-tty-description.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="pci",
ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="pci-db %p"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="usb",
ENV{ID_VENDOR_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="usb-db %p"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="pci",
ENV{ID_VENDOR_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="pci-db %p"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="*[Ss]peaker*",
ENV{SOUND_FORM_FACTOR}="speaker", GOTO="sound_end"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="*[Hh]eadphone*",
ENV{SOUND_FORM_FACTOR}="headphone", GOTO="sound_end"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="*[Hh]eadset*",
ENV{SOUND_FORM_FACTOR}="headset", GOTO="sound_end"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="*[Hh]andset*",
ENV{SOUND_FORM_FACTOR}="handset", GOTO="sound_end"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="*[Mm]icrophone*",
ENV{SOUND_FORM_FACTOR}="microphone", GOTO="sound_end"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/80-udisks.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="pci",
ACTION=="add|change", ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="",
ATTR{class}=="0x01*", IMPORT{program}="pci-db %p"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/86-hpmud_plugin.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb",
ENV{DEVTYPE}=="usb_device", ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??17", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c 'logger -p user.info
loading hp_printer_device $env{BUSNUM} $env{DEVNUM}'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c
'/usr/bin/python /usr/bin/hp-check-plugin -m $env{BUSNUM}:$env{DEVNUM} &'"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/86-hpmud_plugin.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb",
ENV{DEVTYPE}=="usb_device", ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??2a", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c 'logger -p user.info
loading hp_printer_device $env{BUSNUM} $env{DEVNUM}'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c
'/usr/bin/python /usr/bin/hp-check-plugin -m $env{BUSNUM}:$env{DEVNUM}&'"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/86-hpmud_plugin.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb",
ENV{DEVTYPE}=="usb_device", ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??17", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c 'X=%k; X=$${X#usbdev};
B=$${X%%%%.*}; D=$${X#*.}; logger -p user.info loading HP Device $$B
$$D; printf %%03i:%%03i $$B $$D'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/usr/bin/python
/usr/bin/hp-check-plugin -m %c &'"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/86-hpmud_plugin.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb",
ENV{DEVTYPE}=="usb_device", ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??2a", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c 'X=%k; X=$${X#usbdev};
B=$${X%%%%.*}; D=$${X#*.}; logger -p user.info loading HP Device $$B
$$D; printf %%03i:%%03i $$B $$D'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/usr/bin/python
/usr/bin/hp-check-plugin -m %c &'"
/lib64/udev/rules.d/90-alsa-restore.rules:
RUN+="/usr/sbin/alsactl restore $attr{number}"
/lib/udev/rules.d/10-dm.rules:# Set proper sbin path, /sbin has higher
priority than /usr/sbin.
/lib/udev/rules.d/10-dm.rules:TEST!="$env{DM_SBIN_PATH}/dmsetup",
ENV{DM_SBIN_PATH}="/usr/sbin"
/lib/udev/rules.d/56-hpmud_add_printer.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb",
ENV{DEVTYPE}=="usb_device", ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="????", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c 'logger -p user.info
loading HP Device $env{BUSNUM} $env{DEVNUM}'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c
'/usr/bin/hp-config_usb_printer $env{BUSNUM}:$env{DEVNUM} &'"
/lib/udev/rules.d/56-hpmud_add_printer.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb_device",
ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0", ATTRS{idProduct}=="????", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c
'X=%k; X=$${X#usbdev}; B=$${X%%%%.*}; D=$${X#*.}; logger -p user.info
loading HP Device $$B $$D; printf %%03i:%%03i $$B $$D'", RUN+="/bin/sh
-c '/usr/bin/hp-config_usb_printer %c &'"
/lib/udev/rules.d/56-hpmud_support.rules:ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??17", RUN+="/bin/sh -c 'hp_model=%E{ID_MODEL}
/usr/bin/hp-mkuri -c &'"
/lib/udev/rules.d/56-hpmud_support.rules:ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??2a", RUN+="/bin/sh -c 'hp_model=%E{ID_MODEL}
/usr/bin/hp-mkuri -c &'"
/lib/udev/rules.d/56-hpmud_support.rules:ENV{hp_test}=="yes",
RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/usr/bin/hp-mkuri -c &'"
/lib/udev/rules.d/75-net-description.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="usb",
ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="usb-db %p"
/lib/udev/rules.d/75-net-description.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="pci",
ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="pci-db %p"
/lib/udev/rules.d/75-tty-description.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="usb",
ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="usb-db %p"
/lib/udev/rules.d/75-tty-description.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="pci",
ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="pci-db %p"
/lib/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="usb",
ENV{ID_VENDOR_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="usb-db %p"
/lib/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:SUBSYSTEMS=="pci",
ENV{ID_VENDOR_FROM_DATABASE}=="", IMPORT{program}="pci-db %p"
/lib/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="*[Ss]peaker*",
ENV{SOUND_FORM_FACTOR}="speaker", GOTO="sound_end"
/lib/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="*[Hh]eadphone*",
ENV{SOUND_FORM_FACTOR}="headphone", GOTO="sound_end"
/lib/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="*[Hh]eadset*",
ENV{SOUND_FORM_FACTOR}="headset", GOTO="sound_end"
/lib/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="*[Hh]andset*",
ENV{SOUND_FORM_FACTOR}="handset", GOTO="sound_end"
/lib/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules:ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="*[Mm]icrophone*",
ENV{SOUND_FORM_FACTOR}="microphone", GOTO="sound_end"
/lib/udev/rules.d/80-udisks.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="pci",
ACTION=="add|change", ENV{ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE}=="",
ATTR{class}=="0x01*", IMPORT{program}="pci-db %p"
/lib/udev/rules.d/86-hpmud_plugin.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb",
ENV{DEVTYPE}=="usb_device", ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??17", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c 'logger -p user.info
loading hp_printer_device $env{BUSNUM} $env{DEVNUM}'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c
'/usr/bin/python /usr/bin/hp-check-plugin -m $env{BUSNUM}:$env{DEVNUM} &'"
/lib/udev/rules.d/86-hpmud_plugin.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb",
ENV{DEVTYPE}=="usb_device", ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??2a", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c 'logger -p user.info
loading hp_printer_device $env{BUSNUM} $env{DEVNUM}'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c
'/usr/bin/python /usr/bin/hp-check-plugin -m $env{BUSNUM}:$env{DEVNUM}&'"
/lib/udev/rules.d/86-hpmud_plugin.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb",
ENV{DEVTYPE}=="usb_device", ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??17", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c 'X=%k; X=$${X#usbdev};
B=$${X%%%%.*}; D=$${X#*.}; logger -p user.info loading HP Device $$B
$$D; printf %%03i:%%03i $$B $$D'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/usr/bin/python
/usr/bin/hp-check-plugin -m %c &'"
/lib/udev/rules.d/86-hpmud_plugin.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb",
ENV{DEVTYPE}=="usb_device", ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0",
ATTRS{idProduct}=="??2a", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c 'X=%k; X=$${X#usbdev};
B=$${X%%%%.*}; D=$${X#*.}; logger -p user.info loading HP Device $$B
$$D; printf %%03i:%%03i $$B $$D'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/usr/bin/python
/usr/bin/hp-check-plugin -m %c &'"
/lib/udev/rules.d/90-alsa-restore.rules: RUN+="/usr/sbin/alsactl
restore $attr{number}"
root@fireball / #
Yikes, almost enough for a attachment.
root@fireball / # equery list udev
* Searching for udev ...
[IP-] [ ] sys-fs/udev-171-r9:0
root@fireball / #
I will not allow my system to upgrade to anything listed in the new
item. I'm not going to chance it.
As to a silent fail. I watch my system really close when booting. If I
see any error message, I hit Scroll lock and make a note of it. I have
one now about rc.conf. I have the file in the new place but have not
rebooted yet to test. So far, I have not seen any error except for
sound card stuff when booting. Since a sound card is not needed when
booting, I'm not worried about it.
Again, this comes to this that has been around for decades. Anything
needed for booting, should be on the / file system, /bin, /sbin, /lib or
/etc. Nothing needed for booting should be placed in /usr or /var since
a lot of people put those on separate file systems, including me. What
I don't get is this, that has been working for decades so why change it?
Dale
:-) :-)
--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how
you interpreted my words!
