On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Daniel Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 08/19/2013 12:52 AM, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 5:54 AM, pk <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 2013-08-18 23:08, Mick wrote:
>>>
>>>> I honestly cannot understand why we/Gentoo are allowing the RHL
>>>> monolithic development philosophy to break what we have. Is
>>>> Poettering the only developer available to the Linux world? Are
>>>> RHL dictating what path Debian and its cousin distros should
>>>> follow?
>>>
>>> Problem is that Linux is dependent on udev and udev is in the hands of
>>> Kay Sievers which also develops systemd together with Lennart
>>> Poettering which in turn used to be a Gnome developer... With that
>>> said, what I cannot understand is why people advocating systemd (and
>>> the kitchen-and-sink model) are using Gentoo in the first place. Are
>>> they just trying to make the rest of the Linux distro landscape as
>>> miserable as Fedora? Why don't they stay with Fedora instead of trying
>>> to turn Gentoo into Fedora?
>>>
>>
>> This kind of response has been repeatedly grating on my nerves
>> on this mailing list. It's just so TECHNICALLY WRONG, but more than
>> that I feel that it hints at a deeper problem about user attitudes and the
>> need to act like a know-it-all that is so prevalent on this mailing list.
>>
>> Systemd is _not_ a monolithic design. I don't know how anyone who
>> has taken even a casual glance at it, or its documentation, can say
>> otherwise. It's so reminiscent of qmail or postfix, where you have a
>> bunch of small programs each doing one thing well, but for init
>> systems rather than for mail, that it's just one step away from being
>> the kind of program you show to kids to teach them how to Unix.
>
> It's not monolithic? Okay, then why won't logind work separately after
> systemd-206?
Here's the release notes for 205:
* logind has been updated to make use of scope and slice units
for managing user sessions. As a user logs in he will get
his own private slice unit, to which all sessions are added
as scope units. We also added support for automatically
adding an instance of [email protected] for the user into the
slice. Effectively logind will no longer create cgroup
hierarchies on its own now, it will defer entirely to PID 1
for this by means of scope, service and slice units. Since
user sessions this way become entities managed by PID 1
the output of "systemctl" is now a lot more comprehensive.
That's why. Logind used to have more scope than it used to, now it
defers some of its functionality to other programs so that it could do
it's "one thing well". That's the very definition of "not monolithic".
Why can't you make it work separately after 205? Because 205 is
a MAJOR VERSION BUMP on an actively developed program.
Nobody's yet written a program that fills the functionality that logind
depends on. Better evidence is that it could work outside of systemd
in the first place. You don't expect public APIs to remain stable
past major version bumps.
So there, once again a long, long pompous rant of acting like a
know-it-all about stuff you've never bothered reading.
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