On 31/07/2014 03:55, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 10:31:50PM +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote
>> Am 30.07.2014 21:48, schrieb Dale:
>>> While to me KDE is bloated, I just try to disable what I can and carry
>>> on.  If my system was limited on resources, then I may use something else.
>> and maybe you did exactly the wrong thing. KDE is very modular and
>> reuses its modules as much as it can. Which also means: memory is only
>> used once.
>> There were once a very good (in my not so humble opinion. It think very
>> highly of myself) comparism here:
>> http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/
>> (url is dead btw)
>> and if you actually use kde apps in kde - memory consumption is lower
>> than in either gnome or 'leightweight' solutions like xfce or
>> windowmaker+stuff.
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20071229030604/http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/desktop_benchmark.html
>   The problem with KDE apps is that they're imitating what MS did with
> Internet Explorer.  They pointed to the itsy-bitsy-teeny-weeny little
> "ie.exe" that you could delete if you felt like doing so.  They
> deliberately obfuscated that it was merely a front end to a ton of
> system libraries that you could not remove.   Back when xpdf was being
> deprecated, various replacement options were suggested.  I chose mupdf
> rather than the KDE app "okular".  Here's why.  After multiple attempts
> at "emerge -pv okular", I found I had to add at least the following to
> package.use to get it to work...
> dev-libs/libattica qt4
> media-libs/phonon vlc
> media-video/vlc dbus xcb -ffmpeg
> dev-qt/qtcore qt3support
> dev-qt/qtdeclarative accessibility qt3support
> dev-qt/qtgui accessibility qt3support 
> dev-qt/qtopengl qt3support
> dev-qt/qt3support accessibility
> dev-qt/qtsql qt3support sqlite
> dev-qt/qtsvg accessibility
> sys-libs/ncurses unicode
>   Seems that if I want to emerge and use KDE's "pdf reader", I need...
> phonon
> vlc (or gstreamer)
> libmpeg
> libmad
> net-dns/libidn
> dev-qt/qtwebkit
> ...***FOR A STINKING PDF READER***.  Here's the "emerge -pv okular"
> output with USE flag listings edited out...
> [d531][waltdnes][~] emerge -pv okular | sed " s/USE.*$//"
> These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
> Calculating dependencies  .... done!
> [ebuild   R    ] sys-libs/ncurses-5.9-r3:5  
> [ebuild  N     ] net-dns/libidn-1.28  
> [ebuild  N     ] kde-base/kde-env-4.12.5:4/4.12  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/libpcre-8.35:3  
> [ebuild  N     ] app-admin/eselect-qtgraphicssystem-1.1.1  0 kB
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qtcore-4.8.5-r2:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qtscript-4.8.5:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qtgui-4.8.5-r3:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qtsql-4.8.5:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qt3support-4.8.5:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qtdbus-4.8.5:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qtsvg-4.8.5:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qttest-4.8.5:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/designer-4.8.5:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qtopengl-4.8.5:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qtxmlpatterns-4.8.5:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] app-crypt/qca-2.0.3:2  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qtwebkit-4.8.5:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-qt/qtdeclarative-4.8.5:4  
> [ebuild  N     ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2.2-r1  
> [ebuild  N     ] media-libs/libmpeg2-0.5.1-r2  
> [ebuild  N     ] media-libs/libmad-0.15.1b-r7  
> [ebuild  N     ] media-video/vlc-2.1.2:0/5-7  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-util/automoc-0.9.88  9 kB
> [ebuild  N     ] kde-base/oxygen-icons-4.12.5:4/4.12  
> [ebuild  N     ] media-libs/qimageblitz-0.0.6-r1  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/libattica-0.4.2  
> [ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/libdbusmenu-qt-0.9.2  
> [ebuild  N     ] app-misc/strigi-0.7.8  
> [ebuild  N     ] media-libs/phonon-4.6.0-r1  
> [ebuild  N     ] media-libs/phonon-vlc-0.6.2  
> [ebuild  N     ] kde-base/kdelibs-4.12.5-r1:4/4.12  
> [ebuild  N     ] kde-base/katepart-4.12.5:4/4.12  
> [ebuild  N     ] kde-base/libkexiv2-4.12.5:4/4.12  
> [ebuild  N     ] kde-base/okular-4.12.5-r1:4/4.12  
> Total: 35 packages (34 new, 1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 309,990 kB

I'm going to take issue with this post.

Walter, you have completely misjudged what KDE is designed to do and are
blaming it unfairly. KDE apps are not designed to run in isolation -
they run in a greater context. That context is the KDE system.

It was designed with the view that an app like okular will be installed
alongside other similar apps that let you deal with other filetypes.
Like audio, video, graphics, text. And so on. To do this, it needs the
libs it is built on. And it needs a graphics toolkit - Qt. The reason
you got such a long list of packages to install is because you do not
have any Qt installed at all.

If you did not have any X installed at all and wanted to emerge xpdf you
would get a similar long list for exactly the same reason.

The point I'm trying to make is that KDe was not designed with you in
mind. KDE could never work for you because of your viewpoint and that
viewpoint is in your sig. So please stop blaming KDE for doing what KDE
does correctly and well. Just realise that you are not the target audience.

As an analogy most of the world wants a sedan so Toyota makes the Yaris
for them. You have decided you don't want a sedan but you do want a
crotch rocket, so Honda makes a CBR1000 you might like. Or if acting
like Rossi doesn't appeal, they also make nice adventure bikes. But that
doesn't make the Yaris wrong.

Alan McKinnon

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