I personally feel that if we don't address BOTH geoengineering and low-carbon economy satisfactorily at Copenhagen then we're at a serious risk of entering 'game over' situations.
I think that a lot of work needs to be done to put forward a package of research that should be backed by the summit to establish a direction for geo-eng. It is not going to be easy to build consensus to support and fund this research, but it's the chance for the funding we all need. I personally am working where I can to push the 'green' organisations to accept it as an essential part of the climate solution mix. A 2009/1/25 Stuart Strand <[email protected]>: > > The biosphere removes vast amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere yearly > reversing the year to year trend dramatically. We control 10% of the > terrestrial biosphere. We can use that control to significantly reduce the > lifetime of CO2 in the atmosphere. > > Glad to hear that the national sovereignty problem has been disposed of. > > = Stuart = > > Stuart E. Strand > 167 Wilcox Hall, Box 352700, Univ. Washington, Seattle, WA 98195 > voice 206-543-5350, fax 206-685-3836 > skype: stuartestrand > http://faculty.washington.edu/sstrand/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene I. Gordon [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 2:33 PM > To: Stuart Strand; [email protected]; [email protected] > Cc: 'John Nissen'; 'greenhouse effect'; 'geoengineering'; 'geo-engineering' > Subject: RE: [geo] Re: What is geo-engineering? > > Stuart: > I am not sure why you say it is overwrought. After all, we agree precisely > on preventing ice melt and the importance of taking large amounts of CO2 > from the atmosphere. I added reducing sunlight, also a possibility which you > commented on but I missed your point. So again, why is it overwrought. > > What you may have missed is the discussion of CO2 lifetime in the > atmosphere. I have circulated material that shows pretty clearly that it is > over 1000 years. No one took exception. If it is reducing CO2 emissions buys > us nothing in the short term other than a reduction in use of fossil fuels, > which is a valuable thing to do independent of CO2 emissions. > > The issue of other governments and what they desire has been addressed in > these exchanges way back. I suspect that you are right that the Russians > might prefer continued ice melt. I did not realize that the atmosphere had > been nationalized. If it has not been nationalized then screw the Russians. > > -gene > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart Strand [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 3:25 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] > Cc: 'John Nissen'; 'greenhouse effect'; 'geoengineering'; 'geo-engineering' > Subject: RE: [geo] Re: What is geo-engineering? > > Seems a bit overwrought to me. Of course preventing arctic ice melt and its > consequences is the number one geoengineering priority, but removing carbon > from the atmosphere is a perfectly valid geoengineering topic. > > But please discuss the science and politics of albedo modification etc to > your heart's desire. Here is a question that I haven't seen addressed: Do > the governments of the arctic nations even want to prevent arctic ice > melting? Russia? > > = Stuart = > > Stuart E. Strand > 167 Wilcox Hall, Box 352700, Univ. Washington, Seattle, WA 98195 voice > 206-543-5350, fax 206-685-3836 > skype: stuartestrand > http://faculty.washington.edu/sstrand/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eugene I. Gordon > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 3:32 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Cc: 'John Nissen'; 'greenhouse effect'; 'geoengineering'; 'geo-engineering' > Subject: [geo] Re: What is geo-engineering? > > > Is there anyone in this group who does not agree that the primary urgency, > virtually to the exclusion of all other geoengineering considerations, is > reversing the Artic ice melt. And if you agree than do you agree that the > issue is removing huge amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere quickly or > reducing the amount of sunlight falling on the Arctic region. Can you add to > that list? > > Priority 2 is how do we organize geoengineering into a valid professional > activity that can promote geoengineering into a position wherein these > overriding needs can be implemented? Once that is done it becomes a > professional activity that offers a recognized and critical venue for the > activity; and a vehicle for obtaining funding for a whole variety of > activities. > > Why do we continue to discuss longterm methods for reducing the amount of > carbon going into the atmosphere? You are fiddling while Rome burns. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Stephen Salter > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:20 AM > To: [email protected] > Cc: John Nissen; greenhouse effect; geoengineering; geo-engineering > Subject: [geo] Re: What is geo-engineering? > > > Sam Carana > > The power rating of a spray vessel is only 100 kW. They have to operate in > mid ocean and migrate with the seasons so they have to generate their own > energy as they move through the water rather than rely on supplies from wind > turbines. > > Stephen Salter > > Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design School of Engineering and > Electronics University of Edinburgh Mayfield Road Edinburgh EH9 3JL Scotland > tel +44 131 650 5704 fax +44 131 650 5702 Mobile 07795 203 195 > [email protected] > http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs > > > > Sam Carana wrote: >> Good point, John, the risk of a runaway greenhouse effect is such that >> we need to prepare to use everything we've got to counter this. >> >> For starters, we should use techniques that are safe, such as where >> suitable selecting vegetation, roofs and pavement that are as white >> and reflective as possible. Pyrolysis of organic waste and biochar >> burial should definitely be adopted. We should switch to clean and >> safe ways to produce energy, concrete, etc. >> >> The more wind turbines, the more surplus energy, which can be used to >> make hydrogen, for air capture of CO2 and to power spraying seawater >> into the sky to change albedo above the sea. >> >> So, not only do all these technologies add up, they go hand in hand. >> One hand washes the other! >> >> Cheers! >> Sam Carana >> >> > > -- > > > > > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, > with registration number SC005336. > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
