Ditto for me. -gene -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of dsw_s Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 6:22 PM To: geoengineering Subject: [geo] Re: the limits of geoengineering?
I'll sign letter as it stands. I'll almost certainly be willing to sign any revision that others here come to consensus on, too. I agree that keeping it short is probably a good idea. Using the word "geoengineering" has pros and cons. I slightly prefer the three-item version over Tom's two-item version. Dan Wylie-Sears On Apr 3, 6:03 pm, [email protected] wrote: > Dear all, > > First, don't confuse what Pachauri says/does with IPCC as an institution. > These are not the same thing. With regard to Geoeng, I suspect > Pachauri is even more conservative (negative? ignorant?) than IPCC. > But IPCC cannot ignore the scientific issue or the literature on the subject. > > Second, I think there should only be two items ... > > (A) Emissions reduction (Mitigation) > (B) Carbon cycle and radiation management (Geoengineering) > > Unless we mention Geoeng specifically, many will not know what we mean. > > I would be happy to sign such a letter. > > Tom. > > +++++++++++++++++=== > > > > > I suggest that we draft an Open Letter addressed to the Participants > > of the Major Economies Forum on Energy and Climate, who will be at > > the preparatory session at the US Department of State on April 27-28 > > in Washington, D.C. > > > Taking into account Stephen's comments on the body language of Dr > > Pachauri, it may be wise to make a very brief statement, such as the > > following: > > > ===== OPEN LETTER TO PARTICIPANTS OF THE MAJOR ECONOMIES FORUM ON > > ENERGY AND CLIMATE ========== > > > Participants, > > > We, a group of scientists, researchers and other people sharing a > > strong background and interest in climate change, are concerned that > > the Forum's sole focus will be on the politics of energy, as seems > > confirmed by the name of the Forum. > > > Whilst we acknowledge that the politics of energy are vitally > > important, we believe that a more comprehensive approach to global > > warming is appropriate, which would include the following three parts: > > > Part A: Emissions reduction > > Part B: Carbon stock management > > Part C: Heat transfer and radiation management > > > We are especially worried that there appears to be little or no > > funding for research and testing regarding part C. > > > Signatories: > > > John Nissen, ... > > Sam Carana > > etc. > > ========= END PROPOSED OPEN LETTER ===================== > > > I invite others to make changes, but suggest that leaving the Open > > Letter short could make more members of this group willing to sign, > > while we could always each elaborate in separate articles as to what > > we each individually propose. Please all make comments and changes > > as you see fit, but do add your name and just let's try and get more > > names under the Open Letter this time! > > > Cheers! > > Sam Carana > > > PS: I'll add details about the Forum below: > > > President Obama Announces Launch of the Major Economies Forum on > >Energy and Climate > >http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/President-Obama-Announces-... > > > THE WHITE HOUSE > > > Office of the Press Secretary > > _____________________________________________________________ > > For Immediate Release March 28, > > 2009 > > > President Obama Announces Launch of the Major Economies Forum on > > Energy and Climate > > > The President is pleased to announce today the launch of the Major > > Economies Forum on Energy and Climate. > > > The Major Economies Forum will facilitate a candid dialogue among > > key developed and developing countries, help generate the political > > leadership necessary to achieve a successful outcome at the UN > > climate change negotiations that will convene this December in > > Copenhagen, and advance the exploration of concrete initiatives and > > joint ventures that increase the supply of clean energy while > > cutting greenhouse gas emissions. > > > President Obama has invited the leaders of 16 major economies and > > the Secretary General of the United Nations to designate > > representatives to participate in a preparatory session at the > > Department of State on April 27-28 in Washington, D.C. The > > preparatory sessions will culminate in a Major Economies Forum > > Leaders’ meeting, which Prime Minister Berlusconi has agreed to host > > in La Maddalena, Italy, in July 2009. > > > The 17 major economies are: Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, the > > European Union, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, > > Korea, Mexico, Russia, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and the > > United States. Denmark, in its capacity as the President of the > > December 2009 Conference of the Parties to the UN Framework > > Convention on Climate Change, and the United Nations have also been > > invited to participate in this dialogue. > > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:16 PM, Stephen Salter <[email protected]> wrote: > >> John > > >> We could start summer spraying from land-based plant on the Faeroes > >> or conventional ships two years after getting some money. However > >> it would be essential to have proper climate modeling, such as that > >> from Phil Rasch, before any spray is released. > > >> I was watching the body language of Dr Pachauri when you gave him > >> the letter in Copenhagen and I believe that we should not be too > >> hopeful of ant immediate help from IPCC. Their track record on > >> Arctic ice is dismal and they will be on the defensive. I hope > >> that I am wrong so please let me know if you have had, or if you > >> get, any reply from him. > > >> Stephen > > >> Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design School of Engineering and > >>Electronics University of Edinburgh Mayfield Road Edinburgh EH9 > >>3JL Scotland tel +44 131 650 5704 fax +44 131 650 5702 Mobile > >>07795 203 195 [email protected] http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs > > >> John Nissen wrote: > > >>> Hi Sam, > > >>> Excellent posting. Two matters arising: > > >>> Firstly, on the matter of Stephen Salter's "cooling ships", we > >>> could start with a sea-side installation on some suitable NE > >>> Atlantic island, (e.g. > >>> Faeroes?) to provide infrastructure - easy access for power, > >>> people, maintenance, etc. We badly need funds to jump start this technology. > >>> Any > >>> suggestions? > > >>> Secondly, thanks for the great idea of an open letter to the > >>> forthcoming international climate forum. Can it be the same > >>> letter as sent to Dr Pachauri? > > >>>http://geo-engineering.blogspot.com/2009/03/open-letter-to-dr-pachaur... > > >>> If possible I'd like to include an argument for the urgency for > >>> Part C action in the Arctic, as has been suggested we might > >>> discuss in this geoengineering forum over the next week. How > >>> should we balance the risks of geoengineering against the risks of > >>> not geoengineering, or delaying action? > >>> What is the optimum ramp up speed for candidate techniques? > > >>> Also we should point out the rediculously low cost of Part C type > >>> geoengineering, in relation to potential cost and life saving if > >>> it manages to prevent Arctic tipping points tipping. > > >>> BTW, who should the open letter be addressed to, at the forum? > > >>> Here it gives the date as April 27-28: > >>>http://www.france24.com/en/20090328-obama-climate-change-denmark-un-s... > > >>> AFP - President Barack Obama Saturday launched a Major Economies > >>> Forum on Energy and Climate to give a boost to a historic > >>> agreement on climate change facilitated by the UN. > > >>> Leaders from the 16 major economies are to participate in a > >>> "preparatory session" on April 27-28 in Washington to "help > >>> generate the political leadership" for successful climate change > >>> negotiations December in Copenhagen, the White House said in a > >>> statement. > > >>> The forum, the White House added, would encourage "a candid dialogue" > >>> between developing and industrialized countries and help "advance > >>> the exploration of concrete initiatives and joint ventures that > >>> increase the supply of clean energy while cutting greenhouse gas > >>> emissions." > > >>> Denmark, which is hosting a UN meeting in December to create a new > >>> agreement on global warming to replace the Kyoto Protocol, and the > >>> United Nations were also invited. > > >>> The preparatory sessions would conclude with the Major Economies > >>> Forum Leaders' summit, to be hosted in July by Italian Prime > >>> Minister Silvio Berlusconi in La Maddalena, Italy. > > >>> The 17 major economies are Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, the > >>> European Union, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, > >>> Mexico, Russia, South Africa, South Korea, the United Kingdom and > >>> the United States. > > >>> UN talks were to resume in Bonn on Sunday with some 190 countries > >>> participating to reach a new pact for curbing greenhouse gases > >>> beyond 2012, when Kyoto Protocol provisions expire. > > >>> The climate treaty was rejected by the US Congress in 1997 because > >>> it did not impose commitments on developing countries. > > >>> Obama's announcement came ahead of a Group of 20 economic crisis > >>> summit in London on April 2, for which he would embark on his > >>> first major foreign trip as president, with other stops planned in > >>> France and Germany for a NATO summit, the Czech Republic for an > >>> EU/US summit and an onward trip to Turkey. > > >>> ---- > > >>> Cheers, > > >>> John > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Carana" > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> To: "Geoengineering" <[email protected]> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:49 PM > >>> Subject: [geo] Re: the limits of geoengineering? > > >>> Andrew, > > >>> Looking at global historic data of warming, one might at first > >>> glance conclude that only a relatively small amount of global > >>> warming did cause the arctic melting we're witnessing now. So, the > >>> conclusion would then be that we similarly needed to reflect just > >>> a small amount of sunshine back into space to have the reverse effect. > > >>> However, what complicates things is that global warming is > >>> amplified in specific areas, notably around the North Pole. East > >>> Siberia was at times 7°C warmer than > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
