It seems to me vital to do two things: 1) Better educate the administration about geoeng 2) Campaign coherently for research funding and a policy direction
I don't know how to go about this in the US, although I've got a good deal of UK experience. My suspicion is that this list is well populated with scientists and engineers, but not so well populated with experienced US environmental activists. If anyone has any good ideas, please share them. A 2009/4/9 dsw_s <[email protected]> > > "he refers to injecting reflective particles into low Earth orbit as > one of the most discussed geoengineering ideas. .. He says SRM would > be too expensive and would interfere with spacecraft." > > I thought he said "one of the classic ideas" or something like that, > and then said only that that particular approach would be too > expensive and interfere with spacecraft. I wonder whether he really > conflated mirrors-in-orbit with SRM in general, or whether it just > looks that way in a short clip. > > On Apr 9, 4:46 am, "Alvia Gaskill" <[email protected]> wrote: > > http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/ynews;_ylt=AgWN.UaI3bpVBdthMQx.sxJdRJ... > > > > Here is part of the actual video of the interview with Holdren by Seth > Borenstein. In it, he refers to injecting reflective particles into low > Earth orbit as one of the most discussed geoengineering ideas. It is not. > He does seem to be aware of some of the generic arguments for and against > SRM. He says SRM would be too expensive and would interfere with > spacecraft. The other article I posted indicates he has a crude and > possibly inaccurate understanding of aerosol formation and effectiveness. I > don't expect all people at the senior policy level to be conversant with all > aspects of these technologies, but his mixing up and confusion of these > ideas concerns me, especially given the low level of understanding of > journalists, leading to a "blind-leading-the-blind" scenario when the time > comes to explain this to the public. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Keith > > To: [email protected] ; [email protected] > > Cc: [email protected] ; geoengineering > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 11:22 PM > > Subject: [geo] Re: John Holdren puts geoengineering on the table > > > > I think this comment is (a) factually incorrect and (b) unhelpful. > Holdren has know about this and paid attention for some time, certainly > since before we held the 2007 Harvard meeting. I talked with him in the fall > on this topic. I don't think it's fair to say that he was "backed into a > corner". Further, I can think of several senior folks in DC who take > geoengineering seriously. (Heck, I am there twice in the next few weeks on > the topic.) I think over-statements like this do more harm than good. > > > > -David > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of David Schnare > > Sent: April 8, 2009 8:37 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Cc: [email protected]; geoengineering > > Subject: [geo] Re: John Holdren puts geoengineering on the table > > > > Holdren, unlike folks in the environmental advocacy community, can be > backed into a corner. Holdren is not stupid and he is not an advocate, so > he has to answer the question asked, rather than spin any response into the > "on message" screed. Thus, he said the least that he could get away with. > > > > Holdren actually understands the moral dilemma of rejecting AGW or > admitting it is too late to "fix" the problem through carbon emissions > reductions policies alone. > > > > I don't find any more support from Holdren than we have seen from > Hawkins. > > > > I repeat what I have written to this group before. You have no friends > in Washington, D.C. (i.e., the government). > > > > David Schnare > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Alvia Gaskill <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Not much different than what he said in the Hot Planet documentary. > Joe > > Romm misrepresented Holdren's views on this in an article he write late > last > > year by selectively truncating a quote Holdren made about the use of > > geoengineering. What he actually said was the same as in these > articles. > > We can't take any option off the table. The problems with air capture > > extend beyond just cost also. It continues to amaze me how journalists > > still don't grasp the concept of aerosol precursors. I guess it's like > > teaching a dog to make a phone call. It can be done with great > difficulty, > > but you still can't have an intelligent conversation. > > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/08/obama-global-warming-plan_n_. > .. > > > > Obama Global Warming Plan Involves Cooling Air > > digg Huffpost - Obama Global Warming Plan Involves Cooling Air stumble > > reddit del.ico.us ShareThisSETH BORENSTEIN | April 8, 2009 11:55 AM > EST | > > > > WASHINGTON - The president's new science adviser said Wednesday that > global > > warming is so dire, the Obama administration is discussing radical > > technologies to cool Earth's air. > > > > John Holdren told The Associated Press in his first interview since > being > > confirmed last month that the idea of geoengineering the climate is > being > > discussed. One such extreme option includes shooting pollution > particles > > into the upper atmosphere to reflect the sun's rays. Holdren said such > an > > experimental measure would only be used as a last resort. > > > > "It's got to be looked at," he said. "We don't have the luxury of > taking any > > approach off the table." > > > > Holdren outlined several "tipping points" involving global warming that > > could be fast approaching. Once such milestones are reached, such as > > complete loss of summer sea ice in the Arctic, it increases chances of > > "really intolerable consequences," he said. > > > > Twice in a half-hour interview, Holdren compared global warming to > being "in > > a car with bad brakes driving toward a cliff in the fog." > > > > At first, Holdren characterized the potential need to technologically > tinker > > with the climate as just his personal view. However, he went on to say > he > > has raised it in administration discussions. > > > > Holdren, a 65-year-old physicist, is far from alone in taking > geoengineering > > more seriously. The National Academy of Science is making climate > tinkering > > the subject of its first workshop in its new multidiscipline climate > > challenges program. The British parliament has also discussed the idea. > > > > The American Meteorological Society is crafting a policy statement on > > geoengineering that says "it is prudent to consider geoengineering's > > potential, to understand its limits and to avoid rash deployment." > > > > Last week, Princeton scientist Robert Socolow told the National Academy > that > > geoengineering should be an available option in case climate worsens > > dramatically. > > > > But Holdren noted that shooting particles into the air _ making an > > artificial volcano as one Nobel laureate has suggested _ could have > grave > > side effects and would not completely solve all the problems from > soaring > > greenhouse gas emissions. So such actions could not be taken lightly, > he > > said. > > > > Still, "we might get desperate enough to want to use it," he added. > > > > Another geoengineering option he mentioned was the use of so-called > > artificial trees to suck carbon dioxide _ the chief human-caused > greenhouse > > gas _ out of the air and store it. At first that seemed prohibitively > > expensive, but a re-examination of the approach shows it might be less > > costly, he said. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kelly Wanser" <[email protected]> > > To: "geoengineering" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 11:52 AM > > Subject: [geo] John Holdren puts geoengineering on the table > > > > >http://www.startribune.com/nation/42671837.html > > > > > Obama science adviser: Global warming so dire, we may need to tinker > > > with Earth's atmosphere > > > > > Associated Press > > > > > WASHINGTON - The president's new science adviser said that global > > > warming is so dire, the Obama administration is discussing drastic > > > options to cool Earth's air. > > > > > John Holdren told The Associated Press in his first interview since > > > being confirmed last month that the idea of geoengineering the > climate > > > is being discussed. One such extreme option includes shooting > > > pollution particles into the upper atmosphere to reflect the sun's > > > rays. Holdren said such an experimental measure would only be used as > > > a last resort. > > > > > As he put it: "It's got to be looked at. We don't have the luxury of > > > taking any approach off the table." > > > > > --------- > > > Kelly Wanser > > > > <br > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
