Posting jim's reply... which did not get picked up ...
From: Jim Fournier <[email protected]> To: Dan Whaley <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected], geoengineering <[email protected]>, david shearer <[email protected]>, Lopa Brunjes <[email protected]> Message-Id: <[email protected]> Dan, Thanks for cc'ng me though I doubt my reply will go back to the geo list. For anybody who doesn't know, I have been in biochar for five years and represent one of the few companies in the space. At this point the biochar community is just that, more a community than an industry. Its mostly researchers and a few small companies still just on the verge of an early market. Mantria was not part of that. The rest of the community was feeling increasingly threatened by them, not just because they were throwing around a lot of money, but because they were making a product that could endanger the credibility of the entire biochar effort if it proved not to work, which seems more than likely. EternaGrenn is (was?) made under pressure, which caused tars to be forced into the interstices of the char, giving it very low adsorption, which is perhaps the single biggest factor in biochar's soil fertility effect. In addition, their material contained so much oxygen in the condensed volatiles that it would have a much lower carbon sequestration value per ton, further muddying the waters for biochar in general. On top of that the whole organization seemed to be willfully ignorant of science and of the view the rest of the community held toward them, as they pushed outlandish claims in the media backed by lots of cash. I had joked that it was a Ponzi scheme because of their behavior, but at this point I can't tell if that was actually true of Mantira, or only the parent company, Speed of Wealth. But Mantria itself did engage in pyramid marketing style behavior such as their infamous $20k 4-day "Biochar University" weekend with no credible scientific faculty, because none would participate. They also put up an elaborate biochar sales site, BiocharBrokers, which offered to take orders, but never shipped, especially to other scientists who wanted to analyze their char. There has been an urgent effort within the IBI to convene a technical committee to define biochar, I suspect in large part to defend against the damage that Mantria was preparing to do to biochar if they did sell a lot of EternaGreen and it then failed to preform as well as virtually any other biochar would. So, at this point I believe the whole community is relieved that Mantria has not done any more serious long-term damage to the reputation of biochar and that this has come to light now sooner than later. If people have associated Mantria's outlandish and often bogus but well publicized claims with biochar in general, I don't blame them for being skeptical, we are too, but there was very little we could do about it when they had all that cash and no shame. best, -j Jim Fournier President Biochar Engineering Corp 701 Pine Ridge Road #3 Golden CO 80403 303-279-3776 office 303-279-3734 fax http://biocharengineering.com On Nov 18, 2:13 pm, Dan Whaley <[email protected]> wrote: > Jim, > > Shysters are everywhere that money is. And in this geoengineering is no > different than cleantech, automobiles or vaccum cleaners. > > What was disingenuous was your statement "Ever thought biochar claims were > false and overinflated? turns out the SEC agrees." > > You conflate the SEC's investigation of two companies' bad practices with > "biochar's claims". > > This is a gross misrepresentation of the articles you cite. The SEC was > making no comment whatsoever about "biochar claims", i.e. with regard to the > field in general. They were announcing an investigation of Mantria Corp and > Speed of Wealth LLC. > > Dan > > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:01 PM, jim thomas <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dan > > > Yes, of course there are well-meaning biochar proponents. > > > Nor is this just one isolated rotten apple. > > > You may recall that a number of groups also had to complain to SEC about > > the claims that Planktos were making to investors, misrepresenting the > > legal situation on ocean fertilization and pretending that their voluntary > > self-issued carbon credits were CER's and tradable on the European exchange. > > seehttp://www.icta.org/doc/Planktos-%20letter%20to%20SEC_final.pdf > > > The relevant point is that once again we are seeing that geo-engineering is > > proving an attractive arena for have-a-go profiteers willing to play fast > > and loose with unverifiable "green" claims to attract gullible investors. > > Probably there will be more such stories bobbing up... > > > This should matter a lot to people on this list. So long as commerical > > interests driven by their own bottom line are active in shaping > > geoengineering as a field, its going to be very hard to achieve fair, > > equitable and open governance arrangements over this powerful technology and > > one might expect even more 'shysters' as you call them turning up once > > federal and other public funds begin to flow to this field. > > > Jim > > > On Nov 18, 2009, at 4:10 PM, Dan Whaley wrote: > > > I think it's a little disingenuous to conflate a couple of sham artists > > running a ponzi scheme with the efforts of those serious individuals in the > > biochar community. > > > It's like saying "Some lawyers are shysters, therefore they all are." > > Aristotle called it "secundum quid" and identified this as one of his 13 > > most common fallacies. It's also known as the hasty generalization. > > > Dan > > > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM, jim thomas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Ever thought biochar claims were false and overinflated? turns out the > >> SEC agrees. > > >> And these guys think they can be trusted with CDM credits???? > > >> Jim > > >> ------ > > >>http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusiness/idUSTRE5AF50W20091116 > > >> SEC files charges over "green" Ponzi scheme > >> Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:12pm EST > >> By Jonathan Stempel > > >> NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission > >> charged four individuals and two companies with running a $30 million > >> Ponzi scheme that targeted elderly investors and people nearing > >> retirement who were seeking environmentally friendly investments. > > >> In a civil lawsuit filed Monday in Denver federal court, the SEC > >> accused Mantria Corp of Bala Cynwyd, Pennsylvania and its principals > >> Troy Wragg and Amanda Knorr of raising $122 million from more than 300 > >> investors nationwide in a dozen fraudulent securities offerings. > > >> The SEC said Mantria enlisted Speed of Wealth LLC, a Centennial, > >> Colorado firm run by Wayde and Donna McKelvy, to encourage investors > >> to liquidate retirement plans and home equity, and buy securities > >> offering returns of 17 percent to "hundreds of percent" annually. > > >> It said the McKelvys encouraged victims through seminars, the Internet > >> and phone calls "to move at the speed of wealth" to invest in > >> Mantria's securities, receiving a 12.5 percent commission for their > >> efforts. > > >> According to the SEC, Mantria purported to use the securities to > >> finance such projects as a "carbon negative" housing community in > >> rural Tennessee, and production of "biochar," a charcoal substitute > >> made from organic waste. > > >> Instead, it said Mantria overstated its own investment success, and > >> used much of the proceeds from new investments to repay earlier > >> investors. > > >> "The only green these promoters seemed interested in was investors' > >> money," said Don Hoerl, director of the SEC regional office in Denver, > >> in a statement. > > >> The SEC charged Mantria, Speed of Wealth, Wragg, Knorr and the > >> McKelvys with fraud and the sale of unregistered securities. It is > >> seeking the return of illegal profits, civil fines, and a freezing of > >> the defendants' assets. > > >> According to the regulator, Wragg, 27, and Knorr, 26, live in > >> Philadelphia; Wayde McKelvy, 46, lives in Sunny Isles Beach, Florida; > >> and Donna McKelvy, 43, lives in Parker, Colorado. > > >> A lawyer for Mantria, Wragg and Knorr did not immediately return a > >> call seeking comment. The McKelvys could not immediately be located > >> for comment, and it was unclear whether they or Speed of Wealth had > >> retained counsel. > > >> The case is SEC v. Mantria Corp et al, U.S. District Court, District > >> of Colorado. > > >> (Reporting by Jonathan Stempel; Editing by Phil Berlowitz) > > >> ------ > > >> New York Times - November 16, 2009, 5:00 PM > > >>http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/regulators-file-lawsuit-... > > >> Regulators File Lawsuit Against Alleged ‘Green’ Investment Ponzi Scheme > > >> By DIANA B. HENRIQUES > > >> “The only green these promoters seem interested in was investors’ > >> money,” an official of the Securities and Exchange Commission said of > >> a green investment scheme. The agency filed a lawsuit, above, on Monday. > >> Federal regulators have accused four people and two companies of using > >> bogus claims about “green initiatives” to entice more than 300 > >> investors into what was really a $30 million Ponzi scheme. > > >> The accusations were made in a civil lawsuitfiled on Monday in federal > >> court in Denver by the Securities and Exchange Commission. > > >> According to the complaint, the fraud scheme’s promoters targeted > >> elderly investors and those nearing retirement age. Investors were > >> told they could reap substantial returns from such “green” initiatives > >> as the development of “carbon negative” housing in rural Tennessee and > >> the production and marketing of “bio char,” a charcoal substitute made > >> from organic waste. > > >> In fact, regulators say, the private company in which investors sank > >> their money had almost no assets or operations and the promoters were > >> paying the promised returns to early investors with money collected > >> from those who invested later — a classic Ponzi scheme. > > >> “The only green these promoters seemed interested in was investors’ > >> money,” said Don Hoerl, director of the commission’s Denver office. > > >> The individual defendants are Wayde McKelvy, of Sunny Isle Beach, > >> Fla.; his ex-wife Donna McKelvy, of Parker, Colo.; Troy Wragg, and > >> Amanda Knorr, both of Philadelphia. > > >> In addition, the lawsuit names two companies, the Mantria Corporation > >> in Bala-Cynwyd, Pa., run by Mr. Wragg and Ms. Knorr; and Speed of > >> WealthL.L.C. in Centennial, Colo., a “wealth education” program > >> founded by the McKelvys. > > >> A lawyer for Mr. Wragg, Ms. Knorr and Mantria did not immediately > >> respond to messages left at his office. No lawyer was identified for > >> the McKelvys, but they did not respond to messages left at their Web > >> site, nor to voicemail. > > >> Update | Nov. 18 Christine Gresh, the executive administrative > >> assistant to the chairman and chief executive of Mantria, wrote in an > >> e-mail message: > > >> We are aware of the SEC action in Denver. We deny all the allegations > >> raised by the SEC against Mantria and its principals and we are > >> preparing our defense. We hope to obtain a favorable resolution of > >> this matter. > > >> According to Mr. Hoerl’s office, investors had been encouraged through > >> seminars and “webinars” to liquidate their retirement plans, mutual > >> funds and home equity to invest in Mantria’s phony environmentally- > >> friendly operations. > > >> Speed of Wealth operates live “wealth education” seminars in various > >> states, as well as online seminars, telephone conference calls and > >> Internet radio programs. According to the S.E.C.’s complaint, however, > >> Speed of Wealth’s primary purpose since September 2007 has been to > >> solicit investors to buy Mantria’s unregistered securities offerings. > > >> Regulators contend that Mr. Wragg and Ms. Knorr would participate in > >> the Speed of Wealth seminars and other sales efforts, providing > >> investors with a nearly fictional account of Mantria’s operations and > >> prospects. > > >> Regulators are seeking an injunction to block further activity by the > >> defendants, as well as financial penalties and recovery of illegal > >> profits. > > >> The case was developed with the assistance of the division of > >> securities in the Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies. The > >> investigation is continuing, regulators in Denver said. > > >> see also the Securities exchenge commission release here: > >>http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2009/2009-247.htm > > >>http://patrickpretty.com/2009/11/17/federal-judge-issues-restraining-... > > >> Federal Judge Issues Restraining Order, Asset Freeze In Alleged > >> Mantria Ponzi Scheme; Video Featuring President Obama, Former > >> President Clinton And World Business > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=.
