I am not actually an expert in weather, climate, clouds or anything similar. Mainly I'm a chiropractor though basically I am an engineer. And incidentally I'm not a doctor of anything.
I came into geoenginering because of an idea about aviation fuel additive to generate aerosol particles. Before I knew about the volcanoes arguments, I used the contrail information from post 911. I quickly found that most papers about contrails argued that they had a global warming effect. There are several papers suggesting limiting flights because of this point is well as the CO2 release. Since then I have been clear that my additive proposals are to do with simulating the volcanoe effect of stratospheric aerosol. Just to be clear: stratospheric aerosols do not block most of the visual light and certainly not the infrared. It depends on particle size but it is mainly the blue and ultraviolet that is reflected, or refracted. Contrails, like clouds, are obviously blocking all the visual spectrum otherwise they would be transparent. They therefore act like a body absorbing some light, reflecting some, and emitting mainly in the infrared depending on the temperature. I think Mike McCracken's post recently touched on this area but is it is not a subject I know anything about. So all in all you need a real weather expert, not me. On sulphate aerosols I believe the most practical short term proposal is by balloons. There was quite a discussion on this in the geo group a few months back. You should be able to find it by searching the group posts particularly those from Alvia Gaskill. As a long-term solution Nathan Mythroid,( spelling? The Microsoft Man), has a proposal for a simple balloon supported pipe of only 15 centimetres diameter or so. My own proposal is at http://www.naturaljointmobility.info/grantproposal09.htm As pointed out by Paul Crutzen in his seminal paper on stratospheric aerosols the quantity of sulphur dioxide or sulphuric acid is only the order of 1% of that emitted into the lower atmosphere by industrial processes so acid rain really isn't a problem. The specific worry about stratospheric aerosols is the effect on the ozone layer and of course the changes that might be made to the world weather pattern by any form of geoenginering. Good luck John Gorman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Massmann" <[email protected]> To: "'John Gorman'" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:07 PM Subject: RE: [geo] Re: GEOENGINEERING EXPERIMENTS BY UK AIR FORCE CREATE CLOUDS ABOVE BRITAIN > Dr. Gorman- > Thank you for your response. > > What is the claim that contrails (or cirrus clouds) warm the earth actually > based on? I know that existing climate software is not very sophisticated > and therefore not super reliable. Maybe the effect of high clouds is > misunderstood? After all, clearing the skies DID seem to increase > temperature, didn't it? > > I've heard that high clouds are viewed as being too thin and that is why > they don't "work". What if thicker, more reflective clouds could be > artificially created at high altitudes? I believe that is one potential > benefit of the scheme I am proposing. > > For sulfate aerosols, what delivery system is currently being proposed? I > hadn't heard of any methods that seemed feasible, and am concerned that > polluting the stratosphere will result in acid rain that could overwhelm the > precariously acidic ocean environment. > > Attached is a summary of my concept. If you have a chance to read it, I > would appreciate your comments. > > Best Regards- > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Gorman [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:28 AM > To: [email protected]; geoengineering > Subject: Re: [geo] Re: GEOENGINEERING EXPERIMENTS BY UK AIR FORCE CREATE > CLOUDS ABOVE BRITAIN > > The cooling effect of aircraft contrails was what initially got me involved > in geo. This all started about 2005 when I saw a BBC Horizon programme about > the effect of aircraft condensation trails. The clear skies in the > immediate few days after 911 allowed a good estimate of the global cooling > effect to be made and it was significant. There have also been similar > programmes about the effect of pollutants particularly smoke in South East > Asia due to forest fires. > > I describe the "evolution of an idea" in detail at > http://www.naturaljointmobility.info/experiments.htm > > Over time I found that there were more papers suggesting that contrails had > an overall warming effect than there were suggesting cooling. (as Mike > McCracken's post says) > > I haven't followed the contrail / high cloud idea since and have > concentrated on stratospheric aerosols where there is the great advantage > that 13 global experiments have been done in the last 250 years proving > without doubt that the effect is cooling and in some cases by exactly the > right ammount. eg Pinatubo. We also know what happens if we overdo it eg > Tamboro1815 > > John Gorman > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "m2redmond" <[email protected]> > To: "geoengineering" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:11 PM > Subject: [geo] Re: GEOENGINEERING EXPERIMENTS BY UK AIR FORCE CREATE CLOUDS > ABOVE BRITAIN > > > JUST THINK IF THIS EFFECT WAS 100's to 1000's OF TIMES LARGER (much thicker > and larger in area) for each aircraft "mission". > > My concept of dispensing large amounts of liquefied air (along with water > vapor and/or CCN's if necessary) might accomplish just that in a single > (100-ton) payload release. > > NOW THINK OF MULTIPLE AIRCRAFT (if needed) CREATING ENOUGH CLOUD COVER TO > OFFSET GLOBAL WARMING. > > I believe this is possible because of the huge net gain in cloud creation > per flight, and that this simple test by the British Army supports my > theory. Some have too easily dismissed the concept, when this image > sequence shows that a relatively small input to the atmosphere can grow to > create something very significant. > > I have to believe that someone in this newsgroup recognizes the potential in > my approach and at least believes it should be seriously considered along > with other promising geoengineering concepts (incl remote ships and sulfate > aerosols). > > Please comment on this either way- I would very much like to hear from > anyone in this group! > > Mark Massmann > [email protected] > 425-208-9798 > Redmond WA > > > On Jan 9, 1:59 pm, Veli Albert Kallio <[email protected]> > wrote: >> The British Army created a circular holding pattern to create an >> immense artificial coil in the sky made of the military aeroplane's >> contrail. This was then easy to distinguish and track by satellites to >> see undisputed, how aeroplane emissions can be made to turn clear >> skies to artificial cirrus covered clouds. >> >> Link to the slide show: >> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8309629.stm >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Got a cool Hotmail story? Tell us >> nowhttp://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "geoengineering" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >> >> >> >--
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