Then there is the social benefit of CO2 emissions, just put at $2400/tonne by 
our friends over at the  American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity: 
http://www.eenews.net/assets/2014/01/22/document_pm_03.pdf  If that is true 
then the value of a kWh generated from coal is $2.40/kWh. At a typical retail 
cost of $0.06/kWh for coal electricity and if we switched to renewables at say 
$0.12/kWh, then we'd reduce our net $ benefit from electricity by only 2.6%. 
Sounds like a bargain to me.  
Greg



>________________________________
> From: Ronal W. Larson <[email protected]>
>To: From: Ken Caldeira To: RAU greg Cc: geoengineering 
><[email protected]>; Ken Caldeira <[email protected]>; 
>Greg Rau <[email protected]>; Geoengineering <[email protected]> 
>Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 5:05 PM
>Subject: Fwd: [geo] Up in air: $impact/tonne CO2 emitted
> 
>
>
>Ken,  Greg, Geo:
>
>   Apologies for delay in response caused by visiting family,  but I hope we 
>can keep Greg's “ethics” dialog open a bit longer.
>
>
>   I am pretty sure that Prof. Caldeira’s remarks below are intended to say we 
>should not rely on net present value computations to justify proceeding with 
>any part of geoengineering - as that approach can leave out so much - and can 
>lead to a justification for inaction.
>
>
>   But I am also pretty sure that he has some different philosophical 
>approaches to justify some geoengineering activities.  This is to ask (not 
>just Ken) what those are.  
>
>
>   Polluter pays?
>
>
>   Is there a way to modify the White House SCC number - which is endorsed by 
>the Administration's OMB - to include any of the values Ken finds missing?
>
>
>Ron
>
>
>>
>>________________________________
>>
>>From: "Ken Caldeira" <[email protected]>
>>To: "RAU greg" <[email protected]>
>>Cc: "geoengineering" <[email protected]>
>>Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:10:09 PM
>>Subject: Re: [geo] Up in air: $impact/tonne CO2 emitted
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Maybe we can discuss this after we establish 
>>
>>
>>(1) the value of species soon to become extinct, and 
>>
>>
>>(2) the value of a few millennia of rising sea levels.
>>
>>
>>While we are at it, we might discuss the ethics of maximizing 
>>net-present-value when we reap the benefits while others pay the costs.  (I'm 
>>all for maximizing NPV when the proceeds accrue to me and the costs are borne 
>>by you, but I feel ethically bound to get your permission first. When 
>>somebody figures out a way to get permission from future generations, please 
>>do let me know.)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________
>>Ken Caldeira
>>
>>
>>Carnegie Institution for Science 
>>Dept of Global Ecology
>>
>>260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA
>>
>>+1 650 704 7212 
>>[email protected]http://dge.stanford.edu/labs/caldeiralab  
>>https://twitter.com/KenCaldeira
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Greg Rau <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>From below: "The administration has revised the value, putting the SCC at $37 
>>per metric ton of CO2 by 2015 following "minor technical changes.""
>>>
>>>
>>>Anyone care to add their 2 cents? A rather crucial measure that will 
>>>determine the net value of any action taken on CO2.
>>>Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>CLIMATE:
>>>White House calls for comments on estimated social cost of carbon
>>>Jason Plautz, E&E reporterPublished: Wednesday, November 27, 2013
>>>The Obama administration opened the comment period yesterday on its 
>>>controversial estimate of the cost of carbon emissions after industry groups 
>>>asked for a full rulemaking process on the figure.
>>>Groups will have until Jan. 27, 2014, to submit comments on revisions to the 
>>>social cost of carbon estimate, which seeks to quantify the cost to society 
>>>of each ton of carbon emissions in property damage, health care costs, lost 
>>>agricultural output and other expenses.
>>>Republicans and industry representatives had raised concerns that a May 2013 
>>>revision to the SCC -- which calculated the cost to be $38 per metric ton of 
>>>CO2 by 2015 compared with the 2010 estimate of $23.8 per metric ton -- would 
>>>be used by the administration to determine the cost-effectiveness of a host 
>>>of new regulations. They asked for a full comment period and rulemaking 
>>>process to evaluate the estimate, despite the fact that it is not in fact a 
>>>rule.
>>>Howard Shelanski, administrator of the Office of Information and Regulatory 
>>>Affairs at the White House Office of Management and Budget, announced the 
>>>comment period earlier this month after previously saying there would not 
>>>need to be one under the law (E&ENews PM, Nov. 4).
>>>Shelanski defended the process used by the administration's interagency 
>>>working group, saying the May estimates "reflect values that are similar to 
>>>those used by other governments, international institutions and major 
>>>corporations."
>>>The administration has revised the value, putting the SCC at $37 per metric 
>>>ton of CO2 by 2015 following "minor technical changes."
>>>Environmentalists had commended the White House for not opening a full 
>>>rulemaking process, even while questioning whether the administration had 
>>>chosen values that were too low to fully reflect the risk from rising 
>>>greenhouse gas emissions.
>>>
>>>-- 
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>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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