Eugene - again cc'ing the list
The number one proof in my mind is the disappearing arctic ice volume.
I still see that as 95% gone in this decade - and no (repeat zero) possible
explanation other than CO2.
I also have read a good bit of four IPCC sets, and a good bit of Volume
I of AR5. Pretty hard to get sign off by every country's politicians.
I also have seen you make major mistakes in your understanding of
climate science in our off-list mostly wasted time on this topic. I respond
this way to urge others (only off-list) to give a try also at convincing you.
It is a shame that you seem to believe you are speaking for so many Bell Tel
Lab colleagues.
Ron
On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Ron:
>
> I do not write to the list on any topic that questions the certainty that CO2
> is the cause of global warming. The people who run the geo list won't
> circulate anything that questions AGW a la CO2 so a debate is not possible,
> I find such absolute close-mindedness without a smidgen of proof to be
> unscientific or worse, with emphasis on worse. . I am thankful that I am a
> scientist who understands how proper science is carried out and I earned that
> insight during 60 years of carrying out good science. It appears to me that
> the managers of the geo group do not.understand how science is carried out
> and stick with CO2 without offering any proof. Alternately, they do
> understand that they have no proof but have an ulterior motive for sticking
> with CO2 despite absence of proof.. I continue with this group because some
> of the ideas for dealing with warming, whatever the cause, are interesting.
>
> If you think you have any information that constitutes proof that CO2 is the
> cause of warming, such as it is, I would be interested. However whatever I
> have seen does not constitute a proof. Such proof according to the
> acknowledged scientific method requires a good, well controlled, experiment.
> No such experiment has been done to my knowledge. Again I emphasize that
> offering a hypothesis instead of a good experimental proof bears on the
> negative motives of those who offer it. If you know of such an experiment i
> would be grateful to learn of it. Certainly tracking of CO2 concentration and
> global temperature is not such an experiment and indeed recent tracking shows
> no correlation.
>
> I am not trying to convince you. You are a dead loss on this topic. You
> evidently do not understand the scientific method. You constitute a good
> source of the coutner arguments I have to deal with.
>
> MY Bell Tel Labs colleagues find them amusing. I cannot imagine Bell Tel
> Labs with such 'scientists'.
>
> -gene
> From: "Ronal W. Larson" <[email protected]>
> To: "Eugene Gordon" <[email protected]>, "Geoengineering"
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 1:03:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [geo] Re: What Is Climate Geoengineering? Word Games in the
> Ongoing Debates Over a Definition
>
> Eugene cc list
>
> Since I can't imagine that you can believe you can convince me on any
> of your topics below, I presume that you meant this to go to the full list.
>
> Ron
>
> On Feb 17, 2014, at 8:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> What is the proof that carbon reduction plays any significant role in cooling
> or geoengineering? Carbon may or may not be a source of warming but no one
> has proven it. It is totally speculative. Attractive ;perhaps but unproven.
> If so inclusion of carbon reduction should be qualified as speculative
> whenever it is mentioned. Since carbon reduction is part of the thinking of
> this group perhaps the first step should be to prove it. If you don't prove
> it where does it leave you --- claiming a potential junk idea. Not very
> bright !!
>
> From: "Ronal W. Larson" <[email protected]>
> To: "Oliver Morton" <[email protected]>
> Cc: "Geoengineering" <[email protected]>, "Emily Lewis-Brown"
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 1:50:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [geo] Re: What Is Climate Geoengineering? Word Games in the
> Ongoing Debates Over a Definition
>
> Oliver, Emily etal
>
> The word "decouple" seems too vague. I agree with Emily that if we
> use "fossil" we should also mention "land use", but mentioning both doesn't
> seem necessary.
>
> My first concern about the term "geoengineering" is that the primary
> emphasis is always on SRM - when that is the most controversial part; not
> good PR. Second , Ken Caldeira's placement between mitigation and
> adaptation seems helpful but I can't recall a definition that ties them all
> together in his circular fashion. Third, we don't here enough on ethics -
> which the term "rectification" covers. So here is a first try, fixing these
> three concerns. I don't expect it to be taken too seriously, but I feel
> better having gotten this written down. What is missing is how to decide
> what to do with both - neither, one or the other, or both.
>
> Geoengineering consists of two mostly unused types of technologies that
> follow mitigation (relatively low cost carbon reduction through energy
> efficiency and renewable energy) but precede high cost adaptation (minimizing
> future damages) and rectification (financial compensation for the most
> harmed)). Close to mitigation are the carbon dioxide removal (CDR)
> technologies, that are low risk and can be started now, but are relatively
> expensive. Close to adaptation are solar radiation management (SRM)
> technologies, which are low cost, but do not address ocean acidification, are
> risky, and will require new time-consuming international treaties, before
> being able to then react quickly.
>
> Ron
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2014, at 5:20 AM, O Morton <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> <snip as not relevant to this exchange>
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"geoengineering" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
