I share your concern, Peter. In seeking the require blessings to move forward with RD&D, we can point to the global scale demonstration of CDR already occurring. As I've pointed out before (OK, like a broken record), global atmospheric CO2 concentrations temporarily decline each year, even at the remote South Pole: http://scrippsco2.ucsd.edu/graphics_gallery/mauna_loa_and_south_pole/mauna_loa_and_south_pole.html Each year more than half of anthro CO2 is removed, post-emissions. So while politicians dither over the obvious need to reduce emissions, CDR is already mitigating more CO2 than any CO2 emissions reduction program, now and probably into the distant future. How can the possibility of building on this obvious and massive success be ignored in our quest to figure out how to manage air CO2? Greg
________________________________ From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [geoengineering@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Peter Flynn [peter.fl...@ualberta.ca] Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:35 AM To: andrew.lock...@gmail.com; geoengineering Subject: RE: [geo] The flawed appeal of unilateral Direct Air Capture programs to prevent climate change | Deich I find it discouraging that so much commentary on climate change and its subset, geoengineering, is focused on “that won’t work”, with its subset, “how will we govern that”. I think of World War II, where humans found ways to take action with a smaller chorus of negativity. One constant element in such commentary is that any action (sometimes even research) will decrease the incentive for emissions reduction, and hence such action should be not taken. I reflect on King Canute who, when wanting to convince subjects of the limitations of his power, went to the surf and ordered the tide not to come in. Let those convinced of the reliable efficacy of CDR travel to China and India to convince the masses that they shouldn’t buy a car, and report back. I hope we can reduce worldwide emissions, but saying we shouldn’t have research and demonstration of thoughtful contingency options strikes me as reckless. I would love to see a demonstration scale direct capture program in any country; it would add to the body of knowledge about the numerous choices that lie in the future. Ditto re a biochar demonstration scale project. Ditto re many others. And I would love to see some of the energy that goes into seemingly endless discussions of governance shift into populating our knowledge of options. Peter Flynn Peter Flynn, P. Eng., Ph. D. Emeritus Professor and Poole Chair in Management for Engineers Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Alberta peter.fl...@ualberta.ca<mailto:peter.fl...@ualberta.ca> cell: 928 451 4455 From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> [mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Andrew Lockley Sent: December-20-14 9:44 AM To: geoengineering Subject: [geo] The flawed appeal of unilateral Direct Air Capture programs to prevent climate change | Deich Poster's note : view online for useful graphs. https://carbonremoval.wordpress.com/2014/12/20/the-flawed-appeal-of-unilateral-action-to/ The flawed appeal of unilateral Direct Air Capture programs to prevent climate change DECEMBER 20, 2014 For the past 20 years, UN-led climate change negotiations have failed to produce an accord that halts the rise of global GHG emissions. Given this track record, it’s easy to see the appeal of the idea proposed in a recent New Republic article: that the US alone could prevent climate change by investing heavily in large-scale carbon dioxide removal (“CDR”) deployments. The idea in the article goes something like this: the US (and/or some of its developed country allies) would fund a “Manhattan Project” for Direct Air Capture (“DAC”) systems. DAC systems scrub CO2 from ambient air; the resulting CO2 can then be buried deep underground, where it would be trapped in impermeable rock formations. If DAC system costs fell substantially, the US alone could fund massive “artificial” forests that offset large portions of global GHG emissions. Unfortunately, there are three major problems with this plan: Problem #1: The hypothetical costs of the “mature” DAC systems described in the article are likely an order of magnitude too low. The article claims that:“If $30/ton were indeed possible, the U.S. government could construct huge forests of “artificial trees” in American deserts and absorb 30 percent of 2013’s carbon emissions for about $90 billion per year…” The problem here is that the author is quoting figures in $/t Carbon (and not $/t CO2) as is done in the rest of the article: 30/t Carbon translates to a price of less than $10/t CO2 (as a CO2 molecule weighs over three times as much as a molecule of pure C). Today, simply injecting CO2 underground and making sure it doesn’t come back up — a relatively mature process thanks to decades of enhanced oil recovery efforts — costs around $10/t CO2. Even the biggest proponents of the field say that DAC systems are unlikely to cost less than $50-$100/t CO2 even when mass produced. Asking the US to pursue a $0.5-$1T unilateral DAC program seems significantly less feasible than the <$100B program outlined in the article… Problem #2: The reliance on the “silver bullet” of DAC systems. There are numerous proposals for CDR systems, nearly all of which are expected to cost less than DAC systems This isn’t to say that we shouldn’t invest in developing cost-effective DAC systems, but rather that we should invest in a broad portfolio of CDR approaches alongside other GHG mitigation techniques such as renewable energy and energy efficiency. Instead of a Manhattan Project for DAC systems, a better recommendation would be to scale up ARPA-E, SunShot, and other existing applied research programs in a way that incorporates CDR approaches and can find the most cost-effective portfolio of solutions to mitigating climate change. Which all leads to… Problem #3: The biggest problem of all with the article is the the framing that a CDR research program would be a “hedge” against international climate negotiations not working. Instead, a robust CDR research agenda could serve as a major enabler of the success of international climate negotiations. Unilateral investments in CDR and other GHG mitigation techniques can help parties signal that they are committed to making significant GHG emission reductions, and will not free-ride off of other countries’ efforts. The article claims that climate change is not a “repeatable” game, but climate change negotiations are such a repeated game. Signaling individual commitments and building trust are then critical for the players in this “prisoners dilemma” to cooperate, and investments in CDR should be seen as a complement, not a hedge, to enable this cooperation. Bottom line: the idea of massive “artificial forests” may be an intellectually appealing way of preventing climate change, but the reality of the situation is that a broad portfolio of CDR and other GHG mitigation approaches developed through international collaboration still looks more promising — even with the disappointing failures of this approach to date. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
