Dear Andrew:

You are supposed to be a moderator of this site. Those views are not ones of 
moderation. The demonstrators against KXL have been an excellent example of 
carefully conceived, non-violent protest. You make 350.org<http://350.org> 
sound like the Weathermen! If you truly want to be a moderator of this site, 
then please keep your opinions moderate and avoid paranoid diatribes.

Chuck

On Jan 11, 2015, at 3:57 AM, 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> wrote:


That's exactly what was attempted against geoengineering with SPICE. It leads 
to bad science, bad policy, and flight of investment to "rogue States". (A 
parallel is the adult industry fleeing California to escape regulation.)

We can expect endless and tiresome assaults on geoengineering work in this 
regard. Look at animal experiments, and GM food for examples of what can happen 
from campaigners.

I'd expect everything from smear campaigns, destruction of experiments, burning 
of labs, home pickets, public mob scuffles, idle-but-scary threats of rape and 
violence, financial boycotts and maybe even assassination of scientists and 
engineers.

Fasten your seat belts. It may be a bumpy ride.

Basic precautions are simple, and convenient. It's hard to find my home 
address. I always lock my doors. I park my car where few can find it, and I 
can't be tailed to its location. I never tweet or otherwise announce my 
location. I buy transport tickets in cash. I always use a dashboard camera. I 
always bolt the door of any room I sleep in. Not complicated, and it makes me 
far, far safer.

A

On 11 Jan 2015 13:21, "Daniel Kirk-Davidoff" 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
The point of site battles is attrition- annoy the industry enough that they'll 
acquiesce to rational carbon policy, rather than having to have extended court 
and political battles every time they want to build something.  And site 
battles are easier to mobilize for.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 11, 2015, at 7:04 AM, Andrew Lockley 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


With my moderator hat on....

If people think this is an appropriate topic for the list, it would be helpful 
to have some numbers to demonstrate why.

The pipeline would have to make a significant difference to price globally to 
significantly increase the quantity of FF demanded by the market. Will it do 
this? I have seen no evidence here, or elsewhere. If not, this is off-topic.

Without my moderator hat on...

My personal view is that carbon taxation or energy-efficiency regulations are 
far more effective a tool to manage carbon output than what environmentalists 
call "site battles" (squabbling over this-or-that piece of infrastructure). 
Site battles lead to haphazard and irrational decisions.

As an aside: The pipeline could potentially be reused in the post-oil age to 
redistribute hydrogen, biofuels, water, etc.

On 11 Jan 2015 11:19, "David Lewis" 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
The New Yorker just published a Ryan Lizza piece on Keystone, in which Lizza 
noted that: "the philosophical gulf between Obama and congressional Republicans 
is relatively narrow".  '

See:  "The Keystone XL Test:  Can Obama make a 
deal?<http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/keystone-xl-test-can-obama-make-deal>"
 New Yorker, January 9 2015.    Ryan Lizza is the New Yorker's Washington 
correspondent.  He also contributes to CNN.

Lizza pointed out that Obama's "veto 
statement<http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/legislative/sap/114/saphr3r_20150107.pdf>
 was silent on the merits of the project itself".  That is, the veto threat is 
stated to exist because the executive branch asserts that H.R.3 (the Keystone 
Pipeline Act) "conflicts with longstanding Executive branch procedures 
regarding the authority of the President", and hence, if Congress sends such a 
bill to the President to sign into law, "his senior advisers would recommend 
that he veto" it.

Lizza claims to have inside information regarding Obama's view of Keystone:  
"In private, Obama has been dismissive of environmentalist claims that building 
Keystone XL would significantly affect climate change", and adds that "his 
State Department, with some caveats, came to the same conclusion in an 
environmental-impact 
statement<http://keystonepipeline-xl.state.gov/finalseis/index.htm>".

Hence, Lizza reasons, a deal may be possible.  He advocates that Obama make 
one.  He speculates:  "What would the G.O.P. be willing to trade to get 
Keystone approved?  A carbon tax?".

My question:  could the US environment movement give up its adamant opposition 
to Keystone if, in exchange, Republicans signed on to a federal carbon tax?


On Saturday, January 10, 2015 at 4:17:04 PM UTC-8, Alan Robock wrote:
You all might also be interested in my blog on the subject in March last year.  
It seems President Obama listened to me.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-robock/president-obama-say-no-to_b_4913672.html

Alan Robock





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