We already have lots of low level tankers. We have no true high level tankers.
If we need to do geoengineering at the same time as a large global war, we might have a problem with tanker supply. But then we'd have lots of other problems, too. A On Mon, 28 Nov 2022, 22:17 Douglas MacMartin, <[email protected]> wrote: > Why? > > > > Option 1) Build a modest number of airplanes that can get to desired > altitude, like 20km, without any need to spend much time at altitude, and > then use them continuously. > > > > Option 2) Build 10-100x as many airplanes as option 1 because you’re only > going to use them when there might be fires, and while they won’t need to > get as high, they’re still dedicated aircraft, and they’ll need to be able > to fly long distances to get from wherever the air base is to wherever the > fire might be… and while you’re at it, you lose the ability to decide > latitude of injection and seasonality. > > > > Option 1 sure seems a lot easier from a cost perspective regardless of how > many massive fires there are > > > > *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On > Behalf Of *Andrew Lockley > *Sent:* Sunday, November 27, 2022 9:37 AM > *To:* Govindasamy Bala <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Adrian Hindes <[email protected]>; geoengineering < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [geo] Re: Stratospheric warming, SRM and aerosol injection > events > > > > My understanding is that current consensus is that adding black carbon to > the stratosphere would be a bad idea, so the paper proposing using it for > lofting is unlikely to be implemented. > > > > But what if we used forest fires as a natural(ish) source of black carbon > for lofting? Are there enough such fires that this could be a viable option > for lifting sulfur to the stratosphere, without deliberately adding more? > > > > Andrew > > > > On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, 07:10 Govindasamy Bala, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Besides the effects on stratospheric circulation and chemistry, > stratospheric warming caused by sulfate aerosols reduces the effectiveness > of what we are trying to achieve. The main intent is to increase sunlight > reflection. Part of this cooling effect is offset by stratospheric warming. > In a 2019 ESD paper, we show this by prescribing volcanic aerosols at 16, > 19, and 22 km. In all these 3 cases, there is stratospheric warming. > However, in the case of 16km which is close to the troposphere, the > stratospheric warming leads to more water vapor in the stratosphere which > could further offset the originally intended cooling. > > > > https://doi.org/10.5194/esd-10-885-2019 > > > > Cheers, > > Bala > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 8:52 AM 'Adrian Hindes' via geoengineering < > [email protected]> wrote: > > I'm not an expert on atmospheric dynamics, but am aware of some relevant > papers in that general direction. > > > > Gao et al. (2021) looked at "practical" SAI using solar powered lofting > from black carbon particles, partly inspired by the dynamics seen from > large bushfires: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abe3416 > > > > More broadly related, Christian et al. (2019) looked at the radiative > forcing and stratospheric warming impacts of pyrocumulonimbus clouds: > https://doi.org/10.1029/2019GL082360 > > Along the same lines, Peterson et al. (2021) looked specifically at the > Black Summer bushfires in Australia from 2019-20: > http://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-021-00192-9 > > > > Similar methods from those studies would presumably be applicable to > studying SAI injection, and/or the potential dynamics between artificially > injected sulphur (or other) aerosols with stratospheric warming events, > pyroCb clouds and the like. I imagine there would be quite a lot of > complexity with potentially compounding effects, maybe increasing aerosol > lifetime, mixing and regional hydroclimatic changes, etc. > > > > Speaking of which, Simpson et al. (2019) specifically looked at the > regional hydroclimatic effects of SAI, and how stratospheric heating plays > into it: 10.1029/2019JD031093 <https://doi.org/10.1029/2019JD031093>. > > > > My understanding from reading that paper and others is stratospheric > heating dynamics of SAI is one of those areas where there's still quite a > lot of uncertainty, and an area of active research. Maybe other folks in > the group here who have more experience with ESMs and atmospheric dynamics > can comment further. I know the perspective paper by Ben Kravitz and Doug > MacMartin <http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/s43017-019-0004-7> on uncertainty in > solar geo research picked out stratospheric heating impacts on tropospheric > and surface climate as one of the key outstanding uncertainties. > > > > On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 6:35:43 am UTC+11 [email protected] > wrote: > > Hi all, > > Do people know of the impact of stratospheric warming that SRM causes on > the injection of other aerosols into the stratosphere, say from wildfire > events or volcanic eruptions? Like, how does a warm stratosphere effect how > these aerosols rise into the stratosphere and the dynamics of them within > the stratosphere > > Best Wishes > > Gideon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/7c0da4f8-f39e-41bb-90ba-ad2615ea8a68n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/7c0da4f8-f39e-41bb-90ba-ad2615ea8a68n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > > > -- > > With Best Wishes, > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > G. Bala > Professor > Center for Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences > Indian Institute of Science > Bangalore - 560 012 > India > > Tel: +91 80 2293 3428; +91 80 2293 2505 > Fax: +91 80 2360 0865; +91 80 2293 3425 > Email: [email protected]; [email protected] > Google Scholar <https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=eurjQPwAAAAJ> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/CAD7fhVn_DJ4my7aDit6GPU7OXzPMozsHoZeG0%2BKaO_ubwCovPg%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/CAD7fhVn_DJ4my7aDit6GPU7OXzPMozsHoZeG0%2BKaO_ubwCovPg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/CAJ3C-05MQxYzAoHNEu%2BXnnGbmfEQnwSzuc%2BAqNRUbX4tDRCsxg%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/CAJ3C-05MQxYzAoHNEu%2BXnnGbmfEQnwSzuc%2BAqNRUbX4tDRCsxg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. 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