http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2008/11/13/iceland-green-data-centre-dream-s till-alive/
______________________________________________ Michael Gould Dept. Information Systems (LSI) Universitat Jaume I, 12071 Castellón, Spain. email: gould (at) lsi.uji.es www.geoinfo.uji.es -----Mensaje original----- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] En nombre de Andy Turner Enviado el: lunes, 17 de noviembre de 2008 12:31 Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: [Geowanking] Geophysics vs. Geography: Why does one love Hi Mike et al, Data quality, use/presentation issues abound in all things geo. There can be a symbiotic relationship between the more abstract data and the more real region. The map can affect the region... Clearly this is powerful and useful, but there is a commensurate risk. Surely there are cases where making maps too widely available can cause/worsen problems... What is in the Earth and how it moves about affects the socio-economico-political landscape. Mainly this is in terms of energy and material resources and the effects of mass movements, not least volcanic eruptions and earthquakes. However, geophysics is considered separately from geography (which to my mind involves both aspects of the physical nature of things and human systems). In developing better data, perhaps geophysics has less of an issue making data available. On a slightly different note, a colleague mentioned in a joking way the idea of developing a huge data and compute resource in Iceland. The more I thought about it the better the idea seamed. Surely this hasn't beeen overlooked... Toodle pip, Andy http://www.geog.leeds.ac.uk/people/a.turner/ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 15 November 2008 14:38 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Geowanking] Geophysics vs. Geography: Why does one love I'd have to disagree with you there, Michael. I've seen cases (from who pays taxes or votes where to exactly where to put a fence) where a precision is needed that you just can't get from GE/imagery. So, I'd see surveying in those settings less as professionals protecting their turf than as making sure boundaries are clear to everyone involved (and therefore leading to less conflict, hopefully). My 2c worth, Brad > Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 08:52:09 +0100 > From: Michael Gould Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Geowanking] Geophysics vs. Geography: Why does one love > geowanking and the other not so much? > To: Landon Blake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > your example seems to put the finger on the problem: professionals > (surveyor in this case) fighting tooth and nail to keep control over a > certain domain...while technology is allowing ordinary people to do > some of what they (and only they) could do earlier. I would not label > your politician technically ignorant (maybe a bit naive): in a sense > he is foreshadowing the future....people are going to stop contracting > surveyors for many tasks that they can do (in a good-enough manner) > themselves (hopefully the imagery they use is corrected). This is > inevitable: people used to have professional chauffeurs, secretaries > took dictation and then typed letters, etc. and now we do these things > ourselves thanks to technology and usability engineering. > > People normally do not go to GE for GIS activities, but to have a > quick look from above and then investigate further on the ground...no > need for a GIS or a surveyor. > > MG > > p.s.- by the way, the initial post starting this thread seems not to > have sufficiently juxtaposed geoscientists and geographers....I'd say > both like virtual globes and both like their professional tools, all > in good measure and where appropriate. > > > Quoting Landon Blake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> I have enjoyed the comments so far on this topic. I thought I would >> share an eye-opening experience of my own that might illustrate a >> negative consequence of "neogeography". >> >> The local chapter of my state land surveyors association testified in >> front of the County Board of Supervisor in support of a small tax on >> recorded deeds. The tax would be used to fund the County Public Works >> Department's efforts to preserve property corner monuments in the >> County. In my particular area this is sorely needed, and the fund >> would do a tremendous public could if it was handled properly. >> >> One of the County Supervisors looked right at our group and said >> something like this: >> >> "I don't even understand why you guys or even the public needs >> property corner monuments any more. Can't you just look on Google >> Earth to see what you own?" >> >> I was shocked at this level of technical ignorance in an elected >> official, and for the first time in my life I saw how neogeography >> (or more importantly a misunderstanding of neogeography) had the >> potential to cause harm. >> >> I think digital globes like Google Earth and NASA WorldWind are >> awesome, but that doesn't mean that the ignorant people in powerful >> positions can't cause damage. The internet (Google) can't cure all of >> man's problems. :] >> >> Landon >> Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268 >> Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 3:10 PM >> To: Sean Gillies >> Cc: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Geowanking] Geophysics vs. Geography: Why does one love >> geowanking and the other not so much? >> >> Both (Brent and Sean) good points. I don't think anyone on this list >> or in general is saying geographic theory or critical thinking is bad. >> I've even seen GIS theory books on Andrew Turner's desk (neo poster >> child natch) ;-) If anything I'd argue that neo is leading more >> people to become interested in geographic theory and methods. New >> folks may not learn them through a four year degree program or an >> ESRI training class, but it does not mean they can't become well >> versed in the subject. >> >> Also I'd call Google Earth a data visualization tool not a data >> analysis tool. Most folks do their data analysis in something else >> then visualize it in Google Earth. So, I'm not sure that Google >> Earth is really supplanting geographic analysis (i.e. the climate >> modeling replacement analogy) although it is definitely debatable. >> >> Just seems there is an artificial divide between paleo and neo that >> is not really based on much substance. Unless you count vague >> references to mistakes being made and bad things happening. Just >> curious what is driving it all - outside of my various conspiracy theories. >> >> FortiusOne Inc, >> 2200 Wilson Blvd. suite 307 >> Arlington, VA 22201 >> cell - 202-321-3914 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sean Gillies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 5:15:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada >> Eastern >> Subject: Re: [Geowanking] Geophysics vs. Geography: Why does one love >> geowanking and the other not so much? >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> > I would not normally spam the list with one of my own blog posts, >> > but >> I'd love to get thoughts from the list on the topic. >> > >> > >> http://blog.fortiusone.com/2008/11/14/geophysics-vs-geography-diverge >> nt- >> viewpoints-on-the-geoweb/ >> > >> > In short it seems the geophysicists have really embraced geowanking >> type things - check out their special session on spinny globes: >> > >> > http://conferences.images.alaska.edu/agu/2008/index.htm >> > >> > Now compare this to Mike Goodchild's quote in the latest ArcNews: >> > >> > "In 2005, Google Earth was released, and people with little or no >> background in GIS, geography, or cartography began using it and other >> similar services to discover the power of map making. Some even began >> calling themselves neogeographers. Suddenly it was possible to do >> some powerful things with geospatial data without committing to what >> was often a difficult and lengthy learning process....But mistakes >> (by >> neogeographers) were and are being made, as often happens when >> powerful technology is put in the hands of people with little >> background in its underlying concepts and little experience in >> thinking critically about its products." >> > >> > I have a lot of respect for Mike's academic work but this seemed a >> > bit >> over the top. >> > >> > Any thoughts or response? >> > >> > best, >> > sean >> >> I suspect we'd see somewhat different attitudes if an easy-to-use >> climate modeling application that is to the CCSM as Google Earth is >> to >> Arc* were unleashed on the public. Google Earth is disruptive to GIS, >> it isn't disruptive to geophysicists. I sympathize. >> >> Still, the length and difficulty of the GIS learning process is being >> exaggerated, don't you think? >> >> Sean (still suffering from Post Navier-Stokes Stress Disorder) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Geowanking mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Geowanking mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >> >> >> Warning: >> Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against >> defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader >> is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is >> strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, >> please notify the sender immediately. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Geowanking mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >> >> > > > -------------------------- > Michael Gould > Universitat Jaume I > Castell?n > _______________________________________________ Geowanking mailing list [email protected] http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org _______________________________________________ Geowanking mailing list [email protected] http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org _______________________________________________ Geowanking mailing list [email protected] http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
