I have had good luck with students in the limits to growth argument by 
analyzing what parts of the 1970's analysis still seem robust, which do not, 
which are more debatable, and what alarming or significant things they may have 
missed. I start with examples of scientific arguments of other kinds that have 
been demonstrably wrong in the past, as well as with examples of failures to 
take alarming predictions seriously that have led to unfortunate results. I 
include convictions of my own that have proven right or wrong over time. All of 
this has the effect, at least somewhat, of opening up the discussion beyond 
ideological presuppositions and fiercely defended ramparts. One can talk about 
how arguments  about future events get it right and how they can get it wrong.

Once you have entered the territory of the character and quality of arguments 
and evidence, you can start examining each of the arguments with regard to 
limits within this kind of framework. I think this moves a few people out of 
entrenched positions of denial, and, perhaps, just as important, leads those 
who are more open to the idea of limits to a much stronger understanding of the 
arguments, their strengths and weaknesses, and their importance.

In more formal terms, one can simply think of this as teaching critical 
thinking skills rather than the substantive material, but with the result that 
it allows people to look at the substantive material with new eyes, and not so 
defensively.

Very homey examples sometimes help loosen things up, as in, "can you think of 
things a friend or someone in your family predicted would go wrong? Were they 
right or wrong? Why?" Even if the examples are not very appropriate, sometimes 
especially if they are not very appropriate, it can serve to open things up.

Hope this is helpful to someone.



Angus Wright
Professor Emeritus of Environmental Studies
California State University, Sacramento

________________________________
From: [email protected] [[email protected]] On Behalf Of DG Webster 
[[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [gep-ed] Interesting discussion

Hi Ronnie,

Thanks for bringing up this interesting topic. I teach about the history of the 
limits to growth debate in several of my classes and find that there's been a 
major upswing in attention to the topic in recent years. It seems to be 
partially due to changing attitudes about climate change and partly due to 
fears created by the recent economic recession. Generally, my students respond 
to the limits argument (whether they read it in the Meadows et al. original or 
in more recent books like Jackson's economics for a crowded planet) much the 
same way that bloggers, pundits, and even academics do; some accept that there 
are limits and want to find ways to live within them, some accept that there 
are limits and take a fatalistic view that we can never live within them, and 
some reject the possibility of limits all together, putting their faith 
technological progress. Their positions tend to be quite fixed, no matter what 
evidence is put before them. Therefore, I try to take them beyond the limits 
argument by focusing on a deeper understanding of the tradeoffs that we make 
today and the potential impacts of those decisions in the future. To do this we 
delve into the positive and negative effects of population growth, economic 
growth, and technology--understanding all of these elements of environmental 
impact as "double-edged swords" that affect the resilience of the current 
system. This usually helps to open up debate and gets some of them thinking in 
realistic terms rather than entrenched positions.

My guess is that broader discussions among people with these viewpoints will 
come into vogue periodically whenever we feel either temporary or structural 
limits to growth. My hope is that these debates will push people to look more 
closely at the system and their current choices. In regards to the link you 
posted, I'd say that Jackson's book does an excellent job delving into many of 
the issues (see his TED talk for a nice synopsis 
http://www.ted.com/talks/tim_jackson_s_economic_reality_check.html), though 
like so many of these works it falls short on solutions, largely because no one 
solution exists. The other piece referenced, Growth isn't possible, is clearly 
aimed at provoking discourse on limits rather than providing any deep 
understanding. As such, it may, like Meadows et al. (1972), end up creating 
more controversy than constructive debate.

I'd be very interested to here others' thoughts on these works and the limits 
to growth issue generally.

Best,
dgwebster



On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Ronnie Lipschutz 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear All:

I was alerted to a discussion about "limits to growth" and "no-growth" in the 
UK, at 
http://politicalclimate.net/2011/03/21/the-limits-to-environmentalism-%E2%80%93-part-3/

I don't know whether such things are going on in the US and, if not, it might 
be worth launching such a debate.

For you already in the UK, or aware of this, please pardon the hectoring.

All the best,

Ronnie

--
Ronnie D. Lipschutz, Professor of Politics, 234 Crown College
UC-Santa Cruz, 1156 High Street, Santa Cruz, CA  95064  USA
Phone: (831) 459-3275<tel:%28831%29%20459-3275>; Email: 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>;
Web: http://people.ucsc.edu/~rlipsch<http://people.ucsc.edu/%7Erlipsch>

“All down history nine-tenths of mankind have been grinding corn for the 
remaining tenth and have been paid with husks and bidden to thank god they had 
the husks.” ---David Lloyd George---




--
D.G. Webster
Assistant Professor
Environmental Studies Program
Dartmouth College
6182 Steele Hall
Hanover, NH 03755
phone: 603-646-0213
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~envs/faculty/webster.html

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