On 04/30/2015 10:00 PM, Gez wrote:
I think that allowing that would complicate the UI and the the tools
themselves, as all of them should have both paths available.

All the tools need to provide the user with the ability to choose linear or perceptual RGB at will, at the user's discretion. And the tools need to inform the user what's being used at any given point, for any given operation.

If having a less complicated UI is more desireable than giving the user the ability to choose whether any given instance of an operation is done using linear or perceptual RGB, then the babl flips should be permanently removed from babl.

A better solution would probably have to wait until proper
no-destructive editing is finally implemented, and operations are
visualized as a stack/chain/whatever.

And that will mean putting user control over what happens to their RGB data off for how long? how many years will GIMP users not be able to control what's done to their RGB data?

This is a color managment issue. It's fundamentally important. GIMP shouldn't make decisions like "use linear here and perceptual there", other than to offer the user good defaults.

I mean, instead of putting toggles on EVERYTHING, why not adding a tool
that says "from this point, the following operation/s will be performed
in linear/perceptual gamma"?

Because there is no "from this point" in RGB image editing. It is not the case that "until point X use linear RGB" and "after point Y use perceptual RGB" makes any sense. EVERYTHING NEEDS A TOGGLE. It's an operation by operation decision. The user has a right and the *need* to know and be able to control what's being done with the user's own RGB data.

GIMP should NOT make such decisions behind the user's back, forcing the user to use linear RGB in one place and perceptually uniform RGB in another place without so much as a by your leave. GIMP can't know the user's technical purposes. GIMP can't know the user's artistic intentions. Right now the babl flips are a hobble, not a help.

People used to node-based UIs will understand exactly what I mean.
The difference would be that only users who need the toggle will add an
operation that makes the switch when it's required. The UI will remain
lean, without extra options that could potentially confuse less advanced

ALL users need the toggles. Not all users might want to take advantage of the toggles. That's what good default settings are for.

The GIMP UI already is complicated. Saying "let's not complicate it" is like shutting the barn door after the cows are already out. This is a place where GIMP MUST have complications because user control over their own data is at stake.

If not complicating the UI is a design goal for GIMP, well, you all have failed spectacularly.

Color management is complicated. GIMP should enable the user, not constrain the user. The babl flips should either be put 100% under the user's control, or else be removed from GIMP. If the toggles aren't your cup of tea, please find another way to give 100% control to the user. Or else get rid of the babl flips.


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