Hi Shlomi Fish. Thanks for weighing in on it.

I do not feel the GIMP project is a company in the sense that the quote
you've posted suggests.
I feel we are more a community of content contributors, users, and

For example, the GIMP project is not subject to the same market forces as a
company, or indeed most proprietary software providers are.
It is not kill or be killed for us, and our "product" will exist and be
useful long after the "company" has gone (such is the power of Free and
Open Source Software), because anyone can pick up the code and continue the
work. If Adobe dies, Photoshop dies.

Do we want people to use our software?
Of course we do.
Do we offer (for free) a product that can replace Photoshop?
Yes, we do that as well.

But we do not need to play the feature-parity competition game with
Photoshop, because we are not selling anything.

Directly from the GIMP license:

"GIMP is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY
without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A

So to say we offer GIMP to be a replacement for Photoshop is actually not
something that we do.

GIMP is an image manipulation program that can replace Photoshop, but "to
replace Photoshop" is not its purpose.

Do people use it to replace Photoshop in their work? Definitely.
I think there's much more power in that than us telling people to replace
Photoshop with GIMP.

We already show what both hobbyists and professionals use GIMP for, and
that's good enough.

It's all a bit of a moot point, since the question is from a new user, and
not someone switching from Photoshop.
So in this case more than any other GIMP is not even being used as a
replacement for Photoshop. :)

It will serve them well as a photo/graphics editor, which is what it was
designed to be, not merely a replacement for a single (albeit very popular)
proprietary software package.

My 2p.


On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Shlomi Fish <shlo...@shlomifish.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
> my email to the list did not arrive, so I'm sending it again while
> excluding
> all hyperlinks.
> Regards,
>         Shlomi Fish
> Hi C R!
> See below for my response:
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 23:26:14 +0100
> C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > To C.R.:  I think your proposed change to the download page (adding"93
> MB"
> > > just above the download button for GIMP for Windows) is easy, simple,
> and
> > > clear.  I recommend it highly!
> > >
> >
> > We used to list the file size on the download buttons. Apparently the
> > feature didn't get added to the new web layout (which is much better than
> > our old one in almost every way possible) I'm sure it's just an
> oversight.
> >
> >
> > To Alex:  What do I suggest you do about it?  I thought that the features
> > > of the latest version of Photoshop could be listed and tried, and any
> > > features that anyone likes in any other programs, as well as original
> > > ideas, and that GIMP could be presented so that even the relatively
> > > inexperienced (like me!) could easily and quickly understand that those
> > > useful features are available, what they are, and how to find and
> > > conveniently use them.
> >
> >
> > Where on the Adobe website does it list the features of Photoshop
> compared
> > to GIMP?
> > GIMP is not made to be competition with Photoshop, and conversely,
> > Photoshop is not made to be in competition with GIMP. They are both
> highly
> > sophisticated image editors, but they are different programs. They are
> > simply built for similar purposes.This is why you will not see a
> > feature-comparison done on either website.
> >
> Well, it seems that "Joel on Software" has recommended the opposite
> approach
> (and I tend to agree with him) here:
> Quoting from it:
> < QUOTE >
> When you're trying to get people to switch from a competitor to your
> product,
> you need to understand barriers to entry, and you need to understand them
> a lot
> better than you think, or people won't switch and you'll be waiting tables.
> In an earlier letter, I wrote about the difference between two kinds of
> companies: the Ben and Jerry's kind of company which is trying to take over
> from established competition, versus the Amazon.com kind of company which
> is
> trying a "land grab" in a new field where there is no established
> competition.
> When I worked on Microsoft Excel in the early 90's, it was a card-carrying
> member of the Ben and Jerry's camp. Lotus 123, the established competitor,
> had
> an almost complete monopoly in the market for spreadsheets. Sure, there
> were
> new users buying computers who started out with Excel, but for the most
> part,
> if Microsoft wanted to sell spreadsheets, they were going to have to get
> people
> to switch.
> The most important thing to do when you're in this position is to admit it.
> Some companies can't even do this. The management at my last employer,
> Juno,
> was unwilling to admit that AOL had already achieved a dominant position.
> They
> spoke of the "millions of people not yet online." They said that "in every
> market, there is room for two players: Time and Newsweek, Coke and Pepsi,
> etc."
> The only thing they wouldn't say is "we have to get people to switch away
> from
> AOL." I'm not sure what they were afraid of. Perhaps they thought they were
> afraid to "wake up the sleeping bear". When one of Juno's star programmers
> (no,
> not me) had the chutzpah, the unmitigated gall to ask a simple question at
> a
> company meeting: "Why aren't we doing more to get AOL users to switch?"
> they
> hauled him off, screamed at him for an hour, and denied him a promotion he
> had
> been promised. (Guess who took his talent elsewhere?)
> There's nothing wrong with being in a market that has established
> competition.
> In fact, even if your product is radically new, like eBay, you probably
> have
> competition: garage sales! Don't stress too much. If your product is
> better in
> some way, you actually have a pretty good chance of getting people to
> switch.
> But you have to think strategically about it, and thinking strategically
> means
> thinking one step beyond the obvious.
> Like it or not - GIMP is an alternative program to (and in much the same
> niche
> as) Adobe Photoshop. We should be aiming to make people use GIMP (or a
> different
> open-source program) instead of or at least in addition to Photoshop. So
> let's
> stop beating around the bush and admit it.
> Now, if Photoshop were
> FOSS and ran fine on
> most common open source OSes, then it wouldn't be a major issue. But it's
> proprietary software, and runs only on Windows and Mac OS X, and costs a
> lot of money, and has many other issues that you mentioned below, and so
> the
> situation is not ideal.
> > Since you are new to both programs, I recommend GIMP. The time you would
> > spend learning Photoshop is about the same as the time it takes to learn
> > GIMP.
> >
> > For your effort, get these advantages:
> > 1. You get a software application that will dutifully serve your
> > photo-editing needs, for free, for both professional and hobbyist uses
> > without limitation.
> > 2. You get free updates, and will never have to pay any money for GIMP.
> > 3. You will never be bothered by license keys that run out, or other
> > software imposed DRM protection that gets in the way of your work.
> > 4. You will be able to work on any Desktop OS you choose, be it Linux,
> Mac,
> > or Windows, giving you the freedom to choose your working environment and
> > take your tools with you if you decide to switch.
> > 5. You will have a program that you can modify and re-program for your
> own
> > needs when you become an advanced user.
> > 6. You can teach and learn graphic design, and photo editing without
> > requiring your student(s) or teacher(s) to buy and install locked-down
> and
> > expensive proprietary software, or buy software subscriptions.
> > 7. You can participate in a friendly and helpful community that spans
> many
> > FOSS (Free and Open Source Software) application projects. Many of whom
> > will seem like family after a while. :)
> > 8. You will produce graphics in a construction format (.xcf) that can be
> > given to and edited by anyone using GIMP, for free.
> > 9. You can get live help with your problems on irc channels, and mailing
> > lists, and get to speak to the developers and other contributors to the
> > project.
> >
> >  Additionally, there are numerous forums all over the internet full of
> > happy GIMP users, and tons of books, manuals, and videos devoted to doing
> > everything you would like to (both novice and professional) using GIMP.
> >
> > So, welcome to the community. :)
> > I recommend starting here:
> This was very good marketing, in my opinion. You mentioned many advantages
> of
> GIMP over Photoshop. Of course, there's still a long way to go.
> Regards,
>         Shlomi Fish
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