* Nathan Carl Summers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [040508 03:31]:
> On 7 May 2004, Sven Neumann wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Nathan Carl Summers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > I took a look at the new image dialogs on the list today, and I made
> > > a few improvements.  I've posted them at
> > >
> > > http://wilber.gimp.org/~rock/NewDialogSimple.png and
> > > http://wilber.gimp.org/~rock/NewDialogExpanded.png
> >
> > Centering the unit menu next to the size entries does IMO look horrible
> > since it deviates from the table layout of the dialog.
> A slightly ironic comment, since the centering was implemented using
> GtkTable.  :)
> With the units dropdowns positioned the way they currently are, it is not
> immediately apparent that they apply to both of the entries.  Aligning the
> dropdowns with the bottom entry is especially bad because the first entry
> is completely scanned before the dropdown is scanned.  By aligning the
> controls the way that they are, it take a lot more processing to realize
> that the units dropdown applies to the entry above as well.  This
> processing has to take place at a very high level; it requires actual
> conscious thought.  To communicate less effectively, the dropdown would
> have be be located in a completely separate part of the dialog from the
> entries it affects.
> By far the best layout is to center the control, because then the
> applicability to both elements is most obvious.  The human visual system
> groups all three controls together, and so it would take conscious
> processing to disassociate them instead; in other words, you get the
> association for free.  A distant second best would be to align the units
> dropdown with the topmost entry instead of the bottommost.  That way still
> requires some conscious processing, but at least one wouldn't have to
> backtrack to find which entries the dropdown applies to.

One of my comments on irc was that I'd like the units dropdown aligned
with the entries for width/height, for the same reason of visual
grouping. I fail to see the need for the layout of the dialog to even
resemble a table. If that was an argument, one could as well argue for
keeping the entry boxes of width/height, and Res.X / Res.Y, the same
width, and horizontally aligned, this adds nothing but "stiffness" to
the dialog.

> > Using a frame for the template selection seems wrong because a frame's
> > supposed to group elements. The template menu is a single element
> The problem here is that the existing layout breaks a cardinal rule of any
> kind of layout: the dialog elements are not treated consistently.  The
> controls in the "Image Size" and "Advanced" groups are labelled with
> headings, but the template control has no heading at all. This lack of
> balance makes the template dropdown look like an afterthought. Originally
> I simply bolded the Template: label, which made it look more balanced, but
> the dropdown still looked out of place, so I indented it.


> I agree that a label would make the dropdown seem less out of place, but I
> left one off for the simple reason that I couldn't think of a good one.
> Perhaps "Apply:" would work here?  Or perhaps the heading should be
> something else and the label would be "Template:"

The titles of the frames can actually be seen as section headings in a
text, the body of the first section in Nathan's screenshot is a single
dropdown widget. I would find this quite intuitive; the reason I would
is probably that I am used to read books and other written material
using standard typographical means to group and organize different
elements. He also seems to have added some more vertical space (air) 
before each heading this adds further to visual grouping and increases
readability. (this might be a theme issue though).

There is one issue I have with both this Nathan and Svens screenshots,
The header for the 'Image Size' group and the 'Advanced' are not aligned
which each other (at least not when processed by my visual system), the
fact that the labels in Nathans screenshot is not directly aligned with
the beginning of the word Advanced helps a little, but I would prefer to
put the expander triangle 'in the margin' thereby having all the group
headings aligned. (mockup from Sven's version at
http://freedesktop.org/~pippin/gimp-new-image-mod.png )


  /V\    Øyvind Kolås,  Gjøvik University College, Norway 
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