On Sat, 13 Nov 2004, Simon Budig wrote:

> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:41:18 +0100
> From: Simon Budig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] canvas background options
> Hi all.
> Alan Horkan ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Sven Neumann wrote:
> > > Alan Horkan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > > Given my previous comments that is understandable and I think
> > > > discoverability is important but it doesn't make sense to have a
> > > > seperate menu item for every obscure feature and to me this is
> > > > most definately an obscure feature.
> > >
> > > It has been requested over and over again so there are certainly
> > > people who see a need for it.
> >
> > I never claimed some people wouldn't find it useful.
> You did however harp on the uselessness of this feature and advocate its
> removal. Despite numerous people supporting it. Just because you don't
> see the use of this feature that doesn't mean that it has none.

In hindsight I should have been more diplomatic, and I repeated the
comment excessively.

> > > > Perhaps I might have been less quick to complain if it had been only
> > > > one menu item that shows a dialog but it is not, it is a submenu
> > > > with several menu items and that seems a lot like clutter to me.
> > >
> > > It is a submenu, so it is only a single menu entry
> >
> > i dont follow that logic
> Simple: If a menu entry pops up a dialog or if a menu entry pops up a
> submenu is irrelevant for the menu itself. It is exactly one menu entry
> in the menu. It doesn't clutter less or more than a dialog.

My counterpoint is that even though a submenu means only one extra
menu in the parent menu it means another level and more items to
search through.  It doesn't make the specific feature any more
difficutl to use but more menu items overall can complicate the task of
finding anything.

> > I'm not trying very hard to find it, finding problems is relatively easy
> > finding solutions and finding the time to provide feedback in way you will
> > actually listen to is what is time consuming.
> >From my point of view the most things brought up by you are details.
> While I like attention to the detail I don't like that these things tend
> to need lots of discussion. The issue here is a perfect example:
> Configurability of the border color. This discussion should have been
> over when everybody except you agreed that it is useful. Suddenly about
> 14 Mails pop up, 5 of these by you not understanding the point of the
> others. This does not help.

As we had started I had hoped to finish and move some way towards
improving the feature for those who want it and possibly making it less
obtrusive.  If the task is to compare an image with a Black Background, a
white Background and a Blue background, changing it one at time would be
slower than firing off a script that made copies and added a border in a
selection of colours (that is just a possible scenario, maybe there is no
room for improvement but if I'm not allowed to discuss it I'll never
find out).

I'll try and show more restraint and not drag out discussions longer in
future, I admit I got a little carried away.  In other mailing lists
normally only those interested in the thread would keep reading and
responding to it.

- Alan H.

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