On 26/08/10 19:50, oli...@first.in-berlin.de wrote:
> Bcc:
> Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] scanner support should be File->Acquire
> Reply-To:
> In-Reply-To:<aanlkti=vfyui2lpnad6z6e_09hxeit5vlxbx=nni2...@mail.gmail.com>
> Hello,
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 12:54:38PM -0400, Christopher Curtis wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Sven Neumann<s...@gimp.org>  wrote:
>>> "somewhere else" is not a very intuitive place either. We've had a
>>> longer discussion when these items were moved to File->Create and no one
>>> came up with a better solution.
>> I find the 'Create' label non-obvious as well.  It makes sense for the
>> logo scripts, but I'd suggest considering:
> [...]
> The problem is, that file->create as well as file->new do not really create a 
> file.
> A file is created, when it's written to disk.
> It's an image that is created.
> And getting data from a scanner is importing data to make an image out of it,
> which maybe later will be saved to a file (or thrown away/deleted).
> It's the "we are used to misnomed menues since decades" as a heritage of
> M$-Windows, which sucks again and again, and will not stop.
> So... no wonder those discussions will come up again and again.
> The only creative GUI that I've ever seen is that of Blender.
> You need time to learn it, because it's so different,
> but it's good.
> There are other things in the Gimp-GUI that slows down the workflow,
> for example in layer menue and in image menue, transformation tools are at
> different vertical positions. So you always have to switch in mind, or look up
> it again and again, which is time consuming.
> It would be a good idea, IMHO to have same functionality at same vertical
> position, so that it doesn't matter if you want to rotate your image or your
> layer: the transformation will always be at the same height in the menue.
> To achieve same vertical position, for menue-fields that are not used one 
> could
> add an empty field.
> This at first might seem strange, because other programs don't do it that way.
> But after people will be used to it, it will make the work with Gimp easier
> and faster. (Learn from Blender!)
> Ciao,
>     Oliver

I agree, I also find the file-create-screenshot *-scanner options rather 
forced and I have to do a double take to make sure it really says what I 
think it says and I have not misread something.

File - Create - Xsane: device dialog   seems particularly contorted.

I don't really see the need for File - New to be on it's own. The amount 
of work that is done after this action makes one more selection 
irrelevant.  File - New - Image would be fine.

File - New -Scan ;  *-From clipboard ;  *-screenshot   would make more 
sense than the "create" paradigm.

File - Create - button , *-logo et al. seem more natural and are fine.

Since the subject here is "(no subject)" I will add a related comments 
on some similar oddities in the menu system

  I want to comment on how hard/illogical it is to find the "layers 
dockable dialogue" without knowing what gimp calls it and knowing that 
"dockable dialogues" are found on the windows menu.

This is a recurrent problem that indicates that this is 
counter-intuitive for me. I go several times round the loop and 
sometimes just give up not having found what I know is there in the GUI 
- somewhere.

Some comments:

If I want to operate on layers , the most logical place to look is on 
the layers menu. No go.

Having done the tour , I may expect to find something about layers in 
Windows menu. Nope.

So now I'm reduced to scanning every submenu to see if I can spot 
something about layers that is not on the layers menu. As well as going 
minutely through the layers menu since I have presumably carelessly 
missed what MUST be there. Finally, I have to know it's called a 
dockable dialogue before I'm likely to find it

There are similar inconsistencies in several areas . The colour picker 
"dockable" is not on the Colours menu.

This would seem to be another case of organisation by programming 
implementation , not by USER work requirements.

These are all tucked out of the way , two layers down in the hierarchy 
because they are programmed as "dockables", not put where they need to 
be in terms of function.

If I want a colour , I should find it on the colour menu . If I want to 
select  layers I should fine the necessary interface elements on the 
layer menu.


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