On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Renaud  OLGIATI
<ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> wrote:
>> I fail to understand why using <ctrl><shift>E rather than
>> <ctrl><shift>S adds any time at all to your work.
> Not the time, but the annoyance at the stupidity of being told my file has 
> not been saved, when I have just saved it back to its original format through 
> Export.

See, now this I don't get.  Instead of the dialog in 2.6 that was "You
can't include layers, paths, etc. in JPEG, flatten image?", now
there's a dialog that's "Hey you might have exported but you didn't
save your layers, paths, etc, save them?" - and somehow this is so
vastly different?

I was against the current behavior at the beginning, but my GIMP work
falls into one of two cases and it works out this way:

1.)  "Without a net" - destructive editing
    - I need to edit something like a 1-bit TIFF or a greyscale PNG.
    - The file is already the result of export from a complex vector file.
    - And all I really need to do is make some bits black, or some bits white.
    - Most of the time, I don't use layers or masks - if it's getting
too complex I need to go back to the vector source and correct there,
then do another export.
    - So, I open, edit, export, close the file - and then I get the
warning, at which point I pause for a second and think: "did I add
layers, masks, etc. that I need in case this file is a tiny bit off?".
 99% of the time, I just close without saving - but there is that tiny
percent left where I think "hmm... I did save that really complex
selection that might come in handy - what the hell, I'll save it."

So in case #1, it adds all of a second or maybe three to my workflow
and I've become quite used to it. It seems the loudest complaints come
from similar workflows - which are not part of GIMP's target.  Which
brings me to...

2.)  "Full-on GIMP" - lossless editing
    - I'm creating a layered composition, or a background for another
composition that is layered and/or complex.
    - So there's anything from text layers, layer masks, blending
modes - all types of stuff that isn't going to be retained in the
export format.
    - I work, save the file as eg "file_20130615-01.xcf".  I export in
my target format.
    - If the final needs changes (or I've been working over an hour),
I save as "file_20130615-02.xcf", work, save, export.

Case #2 is exactly how I work with everything in Adobe CS - Photoshop,
Illustrator, etc. already.  Except that eg Illustrator doesn't
restrict the "clean" flag to just AI (it will treat PDF and EPS as a
cleanly saved format), it's exactly the same behavior.  For example if
I create a file in AI, save it, make some changes, export PNG, close
it - it will warn me that.... wait for it.... I didn't save the
changes in a format that will be recognized by Illustrator the next
time I open the file.  Sounds familiar, no? ;)

Since I already work this way, I never see the "you didn't save"
dialog on these types of GIMP projects.  At least, if I'm doing it
right that is ;)  So it adds 0 seconds to my workflow.

I'll give you a simple example of #2: a client sends me a set of
bracketed images of a property to combine as "HDR" (never mind that
there are plenty of other tools, client also wants the dog poop out of
the yard and the windows cleaned while we're at it, eh?). I'm
certainly going to consider the file "saved" only when it retains all
of my layers and masks, never mind if the client is only going to see
the exported JPEG.  That way, when they come back and ask "now can we
make the sky green?" (stranger requests have been made), it's "open,
adjust layer, save as, export, close" instead of "open, make mask
(again), adjust, export, close, don't save".  Which saves me time,
which saves them money, which makes me more valuable as an asset.

If all of your GIMP usage falls into #1, you're probably using the
wrong tool for the job.  Either deal with the extra dialog, or deploy
one of the various workarounds (or use another tool).  If you're in
#2, the distinction should make no difference at all, really, unless
you enjoy doing the same work over and over again.


PS - we can do without the name-calling and nation-baiting.
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