----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Tobis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I need to sign of this discussion for a week or two; too much going > on. Perhaps someone else will take it up. I would like to but I am busy too. >> Do you have any evidence that the temperature on the Venus surface >> would be lower if it were 5% co2 instead of 95%? > > Obviously, not observational. But the science is much more advanced > than you give it credit for. The greenhouse effect is understood. Not on Venus it is not! For instance se: "These motivate us to carry out missions like Venus Express, which, if they are to be most effective, focus on the major unknowns and on the observed properties of Venus that are known but difficult to explain, like the high surface temperature." Taken from Fredric W. Taylor (2006) "Venus before Venus Express" 2006 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved. doi:10.1016/j.pss.2006.04.031 > > A quick googling turns up this: > > http://irina.eas.gatech.edu/ATOC5560_2002/Lec26.pdf > > You may wish to work through it, and play with the parameters to see > if you can get it to saturate. He won't get it to saturate because it uses a grey atmosphere with bands which do not saturate. The correct model is not grey but striped, with lines that saturate and gaps between them with no absorption. You can't average between infinity and zero, but that's what the current models do. > As for basing your entire conclusion about the future governance of > the planet's atmosphere on a crude hand-drawn non-reviewed graph of > paleotemperature on the 500 Ma time scale, all the while ignoring > IPCC, perhaps it might be worth reconsidering what you take seriously > and what you dismiss. At least one of the two graphs which make up the diagram to which you refer were peer reviewed. The other comes from a respected scientist - Scocese. BTW have your lecture notes been peer reviewed? The simple answer is that global temperature is limited to about 22 C by the formation of clouds. But that is the global temperature and when it reaches a maximum it is global. In other words the polar temperatures rise to that level too, and all latitudes from there to the equator. Not nice and only suitable for cold blooded reptiles such as dinosaurs. True the planet will not turn into another raging Venus, but it could get hot enough for mammals to drown in the dew forming in their lungs as they try to cool the air below their blood temperature. It only has to happen on one day and all mammals are extinct. Of course those with air conditioning will survive, but where will they get their meat to eat? "Waur doomed:-)" Cheers, Alastair. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Global Change ("globalchange") newsgroup. Global Change is a public, moderated venue for discussion of science, technology, economics and policy dimensions of global environmental change. Posts will be admitted to the list if and only if any moderator finds the submission to be constructive and/or interesting, on topic, and not gratuitously rude. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/globalchange -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
