In a message dated: 27 Mar 2003 09:27:32 EST
"Kenneth E. Lussier" said:
>> Tom, you're on the wrong train. You have it backward. It's the
>> broadband users who want to run their own services that are being
>> punished.
>
>
>No, they aren't. They are being forced to live up to an agreement that
>they willingly entered into by an entity trying to help it's subscriber
>base.
Where in the TOS did you sign agreeing to use only the SMTP client of
their choice?
>No, it isn't a punishment. And you were restricted the second that you
>signed the agreement.
Again I ask, where did any customer of Comcast sign agreeing to only
use the SMTP clients of Comcast's choosing?
>AOL has a right to restrict what comes in. A legitimate e-mail from a
>Comcast mail server can get in.
Is an e-mail created using a perl script not just as equal as one
sent via sanctioned relay? They are both outgoing SMTP originating
from the same IP address. Yet the perl-script generated one will get
blocked because it speaks directly to AOLs server rather than going
through someone else's relay.
>People doing what isn't allowed, and sending mail from places that it
>shouldn't come from in the first place can't.
Wait a minute! Where in the TOS does it say I can't send e-mail from
my home PC for which I'm paying the proper fee for a high-speed
internet connection?
>Where is this a restriction on you?
If I can't send e-mail from the system I'm paying the bill for,
that's a restriction, and one not mentioned in the TOS.
>If you follow the rules, then you should be fine.
But what rules aren't being followed? There is no rule stating that
outgoing SMTP isn't allowed. The rule states no servers, which
restrict IN-BOUND connections, not outbound. You do not run an SMTP
*server* to *send* e-mail, you run a *client* which connects to a
remote SMTP server.
>I bet you have sendmail set up to check for bogus headers, right? Why?
>You're restricting my right to forge e-mail headers.
>> Wrong wrong wrong. They are blacklisting entire IP blocks, where some
>> (relatively) few bad eggs live.
>
>From the sounds of it, there are a whole lot more bad eggs then you
>think, seeing as you are one of them.
Why is he a 'bad egg'? AOL's intent is to block spam. Period. He
is not spamming, and he is not doing anything against his TOS
agreement for which AOL should legitimately blacklist him.
The fact that he runs an SMTP server which *accepts* incoming e-mail
destined to his domain has nothing to do with *outgoing* e-mail.
It's like being charged for DUI when you were only speeding. Yes,
you were breaking one law, but you should not be charged for a
violation you did not commit based on your other, unrelated actions.
>No, you're not a spammer, but you admit to violating the rules and
>running a server.
He violates a rule for which he not being accused of violating, and
being accused of violating a rule which does not exist. Charge the
criminal for what they did, not for something that's exlicitly
allowed.
>So, everyone should be allowed to run an SMTP server, right?
>Well, who's to say that all of Comcast's subscribers will know how
>to lock down an SMTP server?
This argument has absolutely nothing to do with running an SMTP server.
AOL is blocking direct SMTP connections. SMTP connections are made
by clients not servers. The fact that the client can also act as an
SMTP server which *may* accept incoming connections is completely
irrellevent.
>The only people breaking any actual rules here are the
>people running the SMTP servers on Comcast's network.
While the acceptance of an incoming connection to your residential
service may be in violation of Comcast's TOS, initiating an outbound
connection is most definitely NOT. And *that* is what they are being
restricted from doing by AOL.
>> No, very different. The latter is to provide information for those
>> who may want it. The former is to block communications from an entire
>> class of people just because it *might* be unwanted.
>
>Whoah..... You're a "Class of people" now? Let m get this straight. Is
>the class of people Comcast subscribers, Comcast subscribers that run
>SMTP servers, people who run SMTP servers, or what???
No, the "Class of people" would be anyone who wishes to send e-mail
but not go through the providers servers. Look at this way, how
would you feel if certain web sites stated you could not view their
pages unless you configured your web browser to go though a proxy
server with an IP address assigned to your ISP?
This is *exactly* what AOL is doing with e-mail. They are forcing
people to send e-mail through a proxy server.
--
Seeya,
Paul
--
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It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing,
but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away.
If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!
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