On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 16:16:59 +0200 Denis wrote: > bad quality free software will tend to use it anyway.
that is always an option - anyone can grab 'pip' or whatever from same repo maintainers where the hundreds of other bad software they want to use will be downloaded from - if 'pip' is not in the distro repos, it is only one more non-distro package to install, before installing the hundreds of others which is it's only purpose On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 16:16:59 +0200 Denis wrote: > I also don't see how they could be forbidden by the FSDG if they follow > the FSDG. i was not suggesting that any distro should exclude any which are FSDG-fit, only that i believe it is the most responsible option; and we know of only two examples anyways which are fit - i was suggesting that all FSDG distros should exclude the vast majority of them as they are; because they are not FSDG-fit, unless someone _first_ does the work to fit them somehow RMS wants to allow TPPMs to slide for a few more years - that may allow some work to progress; but only existential crisis facing the FSDG and work-group - maybe that would be a fine option, if there was any hope that the FSDG will be enforceable someday the only point of my last message is that it is not possible to convince distros that these TPPMs, in their current form, are against the guidelines, and therefore to remove them and/or help to liberate them - surely they would have reached that conclusion on their own by now - we must consider that question as essential; because today, distros are not obligated to follow the FSDG in any way i would not want to obligate anyone to help do the work; but it would be nearly impossible even to suggest it, if there is no obligation to follow the FSDG in the first place, nor any consequences of ignoring pleas to follow it in the last place then furthermore, if something can be done to liberate them, how to convince the distros which refused to remove them, to use the liberated versions instead, rather than continuing to distribute the unfit versions forever - because surely at that point, even if all TPPMs were allowed temporarily pending a solution, once a solution exists, it should then be mandatory to exclude the unfit versions - i am fairly certain that some distros would still refuse to comply; so we may as well start addressing that now and so finally, that i am reluctant to do any of that work, until i can see a complete clear path to the goal; because i have no interest in TPPMs otherwise - "the goal" is not to liberate TPPMs for who knows what reason - the goal is to convince FSDG distro to follow the guidelines; so that liberated TPPMs would be interesting to distros wanting to keep the TPPMs
