On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:25:18 -0400, Ezekiel wrote: > Goblin wrote: > >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote: >>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:11:14 +0200, Alexander Terekhov wrote: >>> >>>> LMAO! >>>> >>>> http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/EMACS_virgins_joke >>>> >>>> (The page above is full of links so follow the URL.) >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Richard Stallman gave a keynote at the Gran Canaria Desktop Summit in >>>> July 2009. A sexualized part of this talk was described by attendee >>>> Lefty in a blog entry A Good GCDS Beginning (with a significant >>>> disappointment): >>>> >>>> [Stallman defined] "EMACS virgins" as "women who had not been introduced >>>> to EMACS" along with the advice that "relieving them of their virginity" >>>> was some sort of sacred duty for members of "The Church of EMACS". >>>> >>>> One commenter noted that the routine is a regular part of Stallman's >>>> talks but that the singling out of women as 'EMACS virgins' was new. >>>> Matthew Garrett has provided a transcript of a previous similar >>>> presentation by Richard at RMS and virgins: >>>> >>>> "Then if you become a hacker you can celebrate that by having a foobar >>>> mitzvah, a ceremony in which the new hacker stands in front of the >>>> assembled congregation of hackers and chants through the lines of the >>>> system source code. And we also have the cult of the virgin of emacs. >>>> The virgin of emacs is any female who has not yet learned how to use >>>> emacs. And in the church of emacs we believe that taking her emacs >>>> virginity away is a blessed act." >>>> >>>> A few days later Lefty emailed Richard expressing his concerns, and >>>> blogged the ensuing conversation. His original email included: >>>> >>>> "Your remarks gave the distinct impression that you view women as being >>>> in particular need of technical assistance (presumably by men, since >>>> there's apparently no such thing as a _male_ "EMACS virgin"); >>>> additionally, women are quite capable of making their own decisions >>>> about who might relieve them of whatever sort of “virginity”. I (and >>>> many others) viewed these remarks as denigrating and demeaning to women, >>>> as well as completely out of place at what is, in essence, a technical >>>> conference." >>>> >>>> The response claimed that the comments about women were intended as >>>> humour, and that the complainant was misunderstanding the joke. Richard >>>> refused to offer an apology. >>>> >>>> "I do not believe I owe anyone an apology. I did not insult or attack >>>> them, but it is clear some people are attacking me. I think I am being >>>> criticized unjustly criticized, and I feel I have been wronged." >>>> >>>> However, most of the response was about the Church of St IGNUtius and >>>> its potential offensiveness to religious people, rather than the issue >>>> Lefty was trying to raise. Lefty emailed again, reiterating the core >>>> points. Richard's response was that he had already dealt with them -- >>>> which he had not. >>>> >>>> Responses to this blog post have focused on Richard's right to email >>>> privacy -- an example of Derailment -- rather than the original issue: >>>> >>>> "Does RMS think all source code should be free, or his private e-mails >>>> as well??" >>>> >>>> "Have exactly the same question. Any further discussion of political >>>> correctness is pointless before this question is answered, as you cannot >>>> seriously request polical correctness without respecting it yourself. >>>> Sounds fishy." >>>> >>>> Excuses >>>> >>>> Excuses given for RMS's behaviour include: >>>> >>>> That it was not his Intent to be sexist, here >>>> That it was humor -- Richard's own excuse, here >>>> That it was making fun of religion, not women, here and here >>>> He's just like that, here and here >>>> That Richard has earned respect through his Free Software work, and his >>>> bad behaviour should therefore be ignored, here and here >>>> That his judgement was impaired because he was worn out by arguing about >>>> Mono, here >>>> >>>> Silencing tactics >>>> >>>> Some silencing tactics have also been tried against his critics that >>>> don't so much excuse RMS as suggest that his critics should shut up: >>>> >>>> That the joke was sexist but the fuss about it is out of all proportion >>>> here >>>> Nobody who has not made significant contributions to Free Software >>>> should be allowed to comment, here >>>> Only those directly affected by sexism may comment, allies may not here >>>> Lefty's ally work is in itself condescending towards women, here >>>> The complaint is "whiny bullshit" and "attention-seeking", here. For >>>> bonus points, "women should be left out in the cold, not just in the >>>> open source movement but in every job..." >>>> The complaint about sexism is just a disingenuous attempt to achieve >>>> another goal: silencing RMS's criticisms of the Mono programming >>>> framework here and here >>>> The complaint about sexism was just someone (presumably Lefty) >>>> disguising his offence at the jokes about Christianity as a more >>>> acceptable complaint about sexism here >>>> Versions of this very list (Matt Zimmerman also made one in his blog) >>>> are "cherry-picking" and mischaracterising a real debate here >>>> Versions of this very list are merely encouraging trolls, who should be >>>> ignored here >>>> Writing about this kind of thing is a waste of time and anyone serious >>>> about Open Source should be writing code here >>>> That the attempt to include women in open source is "nonsense" and >>>> "creepy", and should be ignored, here >>>> Reverse sexism, here >>>> >>>> >>>> Responses >>>> >>>> Gran Canaria Desktop Summit 2009 by Matt Zimmerman: "This keynote was >>>> the least interesting of the talks I attended at GCDS... He did his >>>> Saint IGNUcius routine, throwing in a sexist joke for good measure." >>>> Simple conference organisation suggestion by Matthew Garrett: "don't >>>> invite RMS to keynote at your conference without an explicit apology and >>>> expression of understanding beforehand. I'm seriously at the end of my >>>> patience with people being unwilling to call others on behaviour they >>>> perceive as unacceptable." >>>> Richard Stallman and his fans by Livejournal user "certifiedwaif": "Do >>>> blog posts like this just bring out the worst commenters, or is this >>>> representative? They seem much more concerned about Richard Stallman's >>>> right to email privacy than appropriate conduct at a technical >>>> conference that both men and women are attending." >>>> All hail the windmill tilters by Christian Schaller: "And before someone >>>> starts shouting at me for not realizing that sexism do exist in the open >>>> source world, please save yourself the energy. I am sure it exist, along >>>> with racism, anti-semitism, bigotry, general intolerance, gay and >>>> lesbian hating, supremacism, communism or whatever evil you want to come >>>> up with. I just don’t buy into using them as the default fallback >>>> whenever the reason for something needs to be explained." (In fairness, >>>> Christian has added a comment indicating that "a longer conversation >>>> with a female coworker about the issue and her relating her experiences >>>> is causing me to re-evaluate my stance on how much sexism there actually >>>> is in the community in general.") >>>> Permission to suck by Abi Sutherland: "So one thing women in Open >>>> Source—or anyone who is a minority in a skills-based group—need is >>>> Permission to Suck. They need the understanding, from themselves and >>>> others, that any and all suckitude is to their account alone, just like >>>> it is for the majority." >>>> Backlash: feminism considered harmful by Matt Zimmerman: "We have a >>>> problem in the way that women in free software are regarded and >>>> treated... What I want to discuss here, though, is how people are >>>> received when they speak up about this, for example by criticizing >>>> sexist behavior they have observed. Often, the problem is denied, the >>>> critic themselves is personally attacked, and the victims are blamed. In >>>> short, there is a backlash." >>>> RMS and virgins by Matthew Garrett: "My point here isn't to claim that >>>> [RMS]'s a bad person as a result. I've got personality flaws large >>>> enough that you could probably drive a bus through them, but I'd be >>>> slightly upset if people thought I was evil because of them. My point is >>>> that nobody is above criticism, and if someone behaves in a way that >>>> offends a large subset of the community then they should to be >>>> criticised. Failing to do so sends the signal that we don't care about >>>> those who were offended, and at the same time provides no incentive for >>>> people to change their behaviour as a result. And yes, I think those who >>>> have high profile positions in the community should be held to higher >>>> standards than others..." >>>> RMS’ emacs “virgins” by Chani: "so… I didn’t comment on this little >>>> incident, even though I knew I should. I mean, it’s RMS, I don’t really >>>> expect him to change. and it’s easier to just ignore it and pretend it >>>> didn’t happen. thankfully, lefty tackled the issue for us. ok, >>>> publishing private mail is rude, but I’m glad he did. the comments >>>> section makes me sad… btw, I have never heard of this “cult of the >>>> virgin of mary”. I interpreted RMS’ speech the same way lefty did, I was >>>> just too shy to speak up about it." >>>> >>>> Retrieved from "http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/EMACS_virgins_joke"; >>>> >>>> Category: Incidents >>>> ----- >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> alexander. >>> >>> God! >>> >>> It's no surprise that RMS picks his feet and eats the toe jam in >>> public. >> >> For crying out loud.... so RMS is the God of FOSS? He represents >> everyone and everything does he? > > > So why is it that Linux "advocates" will often use Bill Gates as somehow > representing Windows and the people who use Windows? It's the same thing > is it not?
Goblin is a throwback loon from Roy's BN chat channel. He's yet another one of the unwashed Roy Schestowitz worshipers. _______________________________________________ gnu-misc-discuss mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-misc-discuss
