On 30.04.2021 22:54, Jean Louis wrote:
> Sample analysis:
> ================
> User gnutec is coming for help, his Guix system is broken and he does
> not know better. I did not verify, it could be his first time on chat,
> verify for "gnutec" term, it should be clear that his system is
> broken. The manner of chat or "welcoming" is far from anything we
> talked here. Of course that "there is no warranty" for software, but
> then why open up IRC channel and have such a policy to treat newcomers
> like "bad behavior". All what I can see is that gnutec arrived in good
> faith and had serious problem.
> http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guix/2021-02-06.log#221204
> Then at one moment gnutec said:
> <gnutec>So for the good of the guix system, do what I ask. Please!
> then it becomes unwelcoming:
> <dftxbs3e>gnutec, I think your behavior here is really bad and is
> getting us nowhere!
> <dftxbs3e>gnutec, nobody here owns you any help and if you are not
> being nice about it I do not think I am willing to help you in any way
> and that could be the same for everyone else.
> <dftxbs3e>gnutec, I think that does not prevent you from being nice with 
> people here. "So for the good of the guix system, do what I ask. Please" - 
> Since when explicitly giving orders to volunteers is an acceptable behavior.
> <dftxbs3e>Things happen at their own pace, there's so many things to
> do, and each has its own varying priority.
> It is the inability of dftxbs3e to grasp that:
> - person is not writing well English
> - person has serious problem with broken Guix system, and who has that
>   kind of problem could be upset

I don't see a problem in that interaction, I think people were being
sufficiently patient with a person who was being arguably obnoxious.

> Or how about Guix's code of conduct where "Examples of unacceptable behavior 
> by participants include:
> * The use of sexualized language" but then again we have 103
> occurences of "fuck" and majority of them by one of IRC members who is
> good friend among them, like nckx:
> http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guix/search?query=fuck
> I don't mind the "fuck" there, but I can imagine there are teenagers
> and people who behave different, rather decent, not using vulgar
> language.
> Now we can see practically that project managers of Guix, WILL
> tolerate their members when they use sexualized language, some of them
> are ready to attack in private as well; but will not tolerate those
> who disagree with their opinions, as if such person would say "fuck",
> would be kicked out.
> That is one good practical example with evidences how Code of Conduct
> is practiced in hypocrisy.

If you pretend that CoCs exist for people to follow like they're law,
sure this would seem hypocritical.  The way I see it, they exist as a
rough guideline and a place to refer to once an actual problem comes up.

What this means in practice is that someone who is genuinely offended by
the f-word *could* complain about it, and the Guix maintainers would
listen.  I'm actually almost certain that if this happened, the result
would be in favor of the person complaining about the use of the f-word.

> Please note: I promote Guix all the time, 24 hours per day, and I have
> no personal hate against anybody!

Yes, sure, it definitely shows that you have no personal hate against
anybody at all from the way you title your emails. ;-)

- Taylan

P.S.: I don't want to waste too much time with squabbles on this ML so
excuse me if I don't respond to further emails in this thread, or keep
them very brief.

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