Hi Robert,
I have moved this thread to gnucash-devel as discussion on the beta
version of GnuCash should not go on the gnucash-user list. Please follow
up on gnucash-devel as well. Thanks.
See below for some replies.
On 17-08-13 14:29, Robert Kesterson wrote:
Geert Janssens wrote:
Hi Robert,
From your message I couldn't derive your motivation for downloading
and installing the beta version of GnuCash. If you didn't download it
to *experiment* with the new features or to do some beta testing, you
are probably better of reverting to the latest stable version, which
currently is 2.4.13.
Hi, Geert and thanks for the info. I was able to find the menu option
open the accounts in the old register format. I wish it would "stick"
so I didn't have to do that every time I want to open it (though I did
discover by that jumping to a transaction in a register opens it in
the same style interface as the account you currently have open, or at
least it seems to, so that's good).
As John already mentioned, it doesn't "stick" because it will go away
completely soon. The register 2 code is not ready yet, but beta is meant
to test and improve this code before 2.6. So there's no point in
promoting the old register code.
To answer your unstated question, the reason I run the beta version is
twofold. Number one, it is updated far more often than the stable
version (yes, I know that's why they call it "stable"). And number
two, I actually *am* looking for improvements in the user interface,
among others. As I mentioned, I run Gnucash on a Mac. It doesn't
really look right on a Mac. For that matter, it doesn't really look
right on Windows either. The GUI looks OK on Linux because it matches
the look and feel of other applications. On Windows and Mac, it
doesn't fit in with the rest of the platform. (Bear in mind, I've
used GnuCash for *years*, including at least a year on each of the
three platforms I mention, so my opinion is not based on a cursory
observation. I don't use all the business or online features that are
available, but I do use the general recording and reporting functions
quite a lot.)
I'm always open for good feedback in GUI improvements. Again John
already explained why the GUI looks as it does. The GUI framework we use
is Gtk, which is a very linux oriented framework. There have been
discussions in the past to switch to something else, but we simply lack
manpower to do that anytime soon.
Note that on Windows you have the option to use different skins
("themes" as they are called). Some of these skins look more Windows like.
Assuming you are testing the beta, here is some background on the
double scrollbar. It has been introduced to work around a performance
problem in the new register interface. It is still under discussion
whether the improvement in performance is enough to justify the added
complexity. It may be reverted to a single scrollbar interface again,
provided another solution can be found to fix the performance.
I guess I don't have large enough registers for the performance to be
an issue. But then I only have about three years worth of
transactions in GnuCash at the moment. But I do itemize and split
every transaction, so it's a fair amount of data (a bit over 6 MB in
a SQLite database at the moment). Previously, I had ten years worth
of data in it, and still don't recall any performance issues. I'm a
developer myself, and I do tend to use machines with plenty of memory
and processing power, so maybe I just don't notice?
You won't notice the performance issue anyway if you use the old
register. It's only apparent in the new register and before 2.5.4. And
the new register in 2.5.4 doesn't have the performance issue any more
either due to changes in how the register is populated. A side effect of
these changes is the double scroll bar, which I expect to go away again
in a future release.
If the bottleneck has anything to do with the amount of data loaded,
I'd look at changing from loading the entire database into memory vs
using a database back end. I'm sure that has already been discussed
to death and I know there are reasons for the current paradigm, so I'm
fine with leaving it at that. But the new register interface still
needs work to be as usable as the old one.
The entire database into memory vs using a database backend is also
something on the roadmap (albeit longer term, not for 2.6). It will
improve the program load time as a whole. But it doesn't change anything
in the performance problem with the register. The problem there is not
the access to the data, but how the GtkTreeView widget handles
presenting this on-screen. By the time the register needs access to the
data, this data is already fully in memory, which means it's even faster
accessible than via a database backend. I've written about this some
more in another mail to gnucash-devel a couple of minutes ago.
I know it's open source and I could actually contribute, but I simply
have too many irons in the fire already. In the interest of actually
doing something useful, maybe I could offer some constructive
observations about the new interface? I would assume you're already
aware of them, but just in case, here's what I've observed:
Your observations are surely welcome. I don't expect you to write code
to fix these issues to give feedback. It would have been nice of course,
but we all have only 24hours in a day.
I would consider it a contribution as well though if you reported your
observations in our bug tracker (http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Bugzilla).
Observations on the mailing list tend to get lost. In bugzilla they will
stick until someone finds the time to evaluate the them. Also having one
place to gather these issues makes it easier to create a larger picture
of some problem.
1. I don't care for the dual scrollbars, but that may be just personal
taste. As others have said, GnuCash seems to be the only one doing
that. Maybe that makes it odd, maybe that makes it innovative. I'm
not sure.
2. In the old interface, as I start typing a payee, autocomplete
happens "in place", so I can hit tab and I'm ready to fill in the
amount, with the complete payee and the target account already
populated and the input focus already on the amount. In the new
register, autocomplete happens in a popup below the field, and hitting
tab just moves my focus without selecting anything. I have to first
hit the down arrow to focus the list and select the item. It would be
nice if it would automatically keep the top match selected as I type
so I could just hit tab and go on.
I'd consider this a bug, or at least a regression of functionality.
Worth reporting, thank you.
2a. If I do hit the down arrow to select the first autocomplete and
then hit tab, it fills in the most recent target account and amount,
but doesn't move my input focus to the amount. In fact, visibly, it
doesn't indicate my input focus at all. It's actually still in the
payee field, but the whole row is highlighted and it's not at all
obvious where the focus is. If I hit tab a second time, I find myself
in the target account column, then I have to tab two or three more
times to get to the amount. The added keystrokes and the uncertainty
of where my focus is make it harder to use the new register.
Same here.
2b. Once I have entered the transaction in the new register, I hit
return, expecting it to save the transaction and move to a new
transaction line. Instead, it just highlights the whole line and
hides my input focus (which is actually still in the amount column).
To make it actually save the transaction, I have to use the arrow keys
to move to another transaction, at which point it will pop up a dialog
asking me if I want to save the transaction. I know I could turn on
the "remember and don't ask me again" option, but in the old register,
I generally did not move off a transaction until I was done with it,
so in the vast majority of cases, the answer to that dialog would have
been either "cancel" or "discard changes". Setting it to
automatically save the changes without asking would likely cause more
problems than it would solve, at least in my case.
And same here.
Lest I be thought a complainer who might be better off with a "pretty
face" accounting program, let me also say that I have tried a number
of different personal finance programs over time, and there's a reason
I've stuck with Gnucash. Despite my quibbles, it is a very solid
program and the double entry approach is really good, and will point
out errors that more "simplified" accounting programs would just sweep
under the rug. I really like it and recommend it. I may gripe about
it needing improvement, but those gripes only exist because I'm
actually using it, and think that a great program could be made even
better.
As said before I welcome feedback. But it's nice to hear you're a real
long-time user as well :)
Geert
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