Hi Mike, Lukas, I am using trading accounts since multiple years and can confirm that the UI can be pretty cumbersome. I got used to it. Besides the regular problems in getting the transactions straight it works pretty well
Cheers, Christoph > Am 22.01.2021 um 06:13 schrieb Mike Alexander <[email protected]>: > > When I implemented trading accounts several years ago they were a bit > controversial. Some people thought they were more trouble than they were > worth and argued that they should be an opt-in choice. One of the initial > design goals was that if you didn't turn them on nothing would change in the > way GnuCash behaved. The initial implementation had some rough edges too, > which didn't help. It's been a while since any significant problems have > come up with them (although a new bug was filed on them today) so maybe this > question should be revisited. > > It's also the case that the user interface leaves a bit to be desired. It is > harder than it should be to enter multi-currency transactions with trading > accounts turned on. At the time I implemented them there was an effort > underway to rewrite the code that supports the register UI and the new > implementation would have improved this. Unfortunately that effort was later > abandoned and we're left with the old UI code. I have ideas for how to > improve it, but my time and ability to do much coding is limited these days > so I probably won't get to it soon. See > https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797913 for more information about > this. > > I know what you mean about multiple currencies. I haven't moved around as > often as you have, but I've lived in a couple of countries and spend a lot of > time traveling in various others. I think I have accounts in nearly 30 > currencies over a 30 year period. I used to have income and expense accounts > in multiple currencies, but this turned out to not work well so I now use > only one currency for all of them and convert transactions in other > currencies into USD. This works for me since it is still my home currency > although I am under increasing pressure to move to Canada. > > Mike > > On 21 Jan 2021, at 21:06, Lukas Haase wrote: > >> Hi Christopher, >> >> This is very sad. Sad for various reasons. >> >> I went over these documents previously (but did not read them thoroughly). >> >> My takeaway is: >> * Storing the conversion rate per transaction makes the accounting equation >> as a function of time inconsistent (but it is consistent for each snaphot in >> time). >> * Trading account accounts for these inaccuracies. >> >> My question was more why the trading accounts (which seem to me the cleaner, >> superior and better way) are not enabled by default. >> >> Also, can you comment a bit more why precicely this would be a major >> minefield? (If you know it, of course). >> >> Multiple databases are just extremely hard for some people (like me). >> >> Consider living for a couple of months to a year in a different place. There >> is just no way to separate this in a clean way without replicating all the >> transactions in different databases. BTDT. >> >> Also I moved multiple times. Even then, there is no clear cut: Initially I >> would use credit cards, ATM etc. from previous country. Even the first or >> second rent may be partially paid with funds from the previous location. It >> takes a few months until I could consider the books between two countries >> sufficiently separate. The only ways are a) Massive transaction Replication >> b) booking everything I pay with funds from old country into old database. >> But with my rent example, it gets very inconsistent how much I paid rent at >> the new place. >> >> Lastly, simple portfolio accounting (e.g. crypto currencies) if they are >> bought in different countries. >> >> I am curious what the potential mines are so I can try to avoid them. >> >> Lukas >> >> >> >> On 2021-01-21 20:20, Christopher Lam wrote: >>> Multicurrency is a major minefield. >>> Start from https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html >>> and finish with >>> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html for the >>> background on trading accounts. >>> From discussion with accountant, it would seem that the safest approach is >>> to have 1 book per home currency. When you move countries you'd be better >>> off with a new book with a new home currency. Taking temporary trips abroad >>> gets the currencies translated to home currency. AFAIU. IANAA YMMV. >>> https://techcrunch.com/2010/08/14/internet-must-be-true/ >>> >>> On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 00:59, Lukas Haase <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Mike, >>>> >>>> On 2021-01-21 02:24, Mike Alexander wrote: >>>>> On 19 Jan 2021, at 20:08, Lukas Haase wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> So I got recommended using trading accounts. But suddenly all my >>>>>> previous multi-currency transactions get a small grey box with a cross >>>>>> (hinting the transaction is inconsistent). >>>>>> >>>>>> How do I best deal with this? >>>>>> Is it possible to keep my old multi currency transactions as-is and >>>>>> use trading accounts only for securities/stocks? >>>>>> >>>>>> If not, how do I migrate while ensuring my ten years worth of data >>>>>> does not suddenly get inconsistent? >>>>> >>>>> You should be able to use the "Check & Repair" commands in the Actions >>>>> menu to add the trading account splits to existing transactions. I >>>>> would certainly save a copy of my data before doing this, and try it on >>>>> a few transactions first. Your situation is complex enough that it is >>>>> not unlikely that this won't do exactly what you want, but it's worth a >>>>> try assuming you have good backup. >>>> >>>> Thank you, I think that worked indeed. >>>> >>>> I still need to cross-check everything (at the first glance things look >>>> OK). >>>> >>>> So then I'd have a general question on the multi currency feature: >>>> >>>> 1.) Are "Trading Accounts" just an *alternative* way to handle multi >>>> currencies (and as such have nothing to do with "trading")? >>>> >>>> 2.) Trading Account seem to be way more powerful than storing the >>>> exchange rate in each transaction >>>> >>>> 3.) Why exactly aren't they enabled by default if they are so superior? >>>> Why let people my default use the way that makes things less consistent >>>> and error-prone? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Lukas >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnucash-user mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>>> ----- >>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnucash-user mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>> ----- >>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> [email protected] >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> ----- >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-user mailing list > [email protected] > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > ----- > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list [email protected] To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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