Nope, PEBKAC.

Both reports are correct and the same. It's just that in the BigSur one you 
turned off both of the sorting options so that only the transfer to/from 
account is visible and then misread the report to mean that that was the 
account being credited or debited.

Regards,
John Ralls


> On Aug 16, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Peter S. Shenkin <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi, here is THE ANSWER. It is a Guncash bug.
> 
> The previous report was obtained on MacOS 11.6.8 (Big Sur). This gave the
> credits and debits mislabeled in the transaction report.
> 
> I have access to another mac running 10.16.2 (Catalina). Running the SAME
> version of Gnucash (4.11) on the SAME dataset that I used for my single
> text transaction, the transaction report, which is attached, is correct.
> Debits and credits are reported in the correct columns.
> 
> Thus, Gnucash works properly in Big Sur but not in Catalina, at least for
> the sub-versions I have access to.
> 
> For all I know, in subsequent versions of MacOS, things might again work,
> but the two macs I have access to are both at the most recent versions of
> MacOS that the respective hardware permits.
> 
> -P.
> 
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 1:55 PM Peter S. Shenkin <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> As an experiment, I started a band new Gnucash file for test purposes. I
>> entered a single transaction. I am attaching a view of the register, a
>> Transaction report and a Balance sheet.
>> 
>> You can see that the same thing is happening that happened before:
>> 
>>   - Register view shows that the checking account was debited.
>>   - Balance sheet shows that the checking account, which started at 0,
>>   now has a positive balance.
>>   - Transaction report shows that the column labeled "Credit" shows
>>   debits and the column labeled "Debit" shows credits, which is backwards.
>> 
>> Thus, I think it is clear at the very least that the problem did not arise
>> from the switch from 4.6 to 4.11. I also think it shows that I am not doing
>> anything wrong, but please correct me if you disagree.
>> 
>> I would look forward to suggestions.
>> 
>> -P.
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 1:46 PM Peter S. Shenkin <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi, David,
>>> 
>>> On the balance sheet, everything is correct; the sums reflecting the
>>> balances of the various real accounts are correct and in agreement with the
>>> bank statements; in other words, they reconcile. I also demonstrated this
>>> in the very first screen shot I sent when I started the case, the shot of
>>> the transaction viewed in the register. In this image, you can see that a
>>> debit to a cash account properly increased the cash balance. So I do not
>>> see how it is possible to conclude that the transactions were in any way
>>> entered incorrectly.
>>> 
>>> It is only in the transaction report where the debits are mislabeled as
>>> credits and vice versa.  I do not see how this could be the fault of the
>>> way I entered the transactions, which modify the account balances concerned
>>> in the proper manner.
>>> 
>>> I understand that there are other ways of entering transactions. But you
>>> did say, regarding the way I entered them, that "this works". In fact I
>>> think the information in the first paragraph above validates the stronger
>>> assertion that "this, in fact, has worked properly for my transactsions." .
>>> But if you see a way I could possibly be wrong about that, please do
>>> suggest what it might be.
>>> 
>>> I agree that nobody we have heard from has had the same problem. But
>>> there it is. If you have a suggestion for anything I might try that could
>>> cast light upon this, please do let me know.
>>> 
>>> One more thing. IIRC, I originally created the account using Gnucash 4.6
>>> and later switched to 4.11. But I do not know whether the same problem
>>> appeared when I was using 4.6. I'm skeptical whether this could be involved.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> -P.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 3:18 AM <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 2022-08-03 at 20:28 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
>>>>> Adrian,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I do have full account names turned on. I forget where I did that. I
>>>> have
>>>>> no customized sort that affects the order of accounts within a
>>>> transaction
>>>>> in either register view nor in the transaction report. (I prefer to
>>>> sort
>>>>> the transactions by date in the transaction report, but that's just
>>>> me.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> You point out correctly that in the register view, where transactions
>>>> are
>>>>> entered, each line of the transaction (which is shown completely in my
>>>>> screen shot) shows the debit first (on the left) and credit second, as
>>>> is
>>>>> customary. I had the labeling of the columns set to the out-of-the-box
>>>>> defaults of Increase and Decrease, respectively. This is highly
>>>> misleading,
>>>>> because in fact both of these accounts increase as the result of the
>>>>> transaction. I later changed the labels to Debit and Credit, an
>>>> available
>>>>> option, which is less misleading, but other than the labels, the
>>>>> transaction looks exactly the same in both the account register and the
>>>>> transaction report. That is, the Credit and Debit labels are still
>>>> reversed
>>>>> in the transaction log.
>>>> 
>>>> Peter,
>>>> 
>>>> This seems to be counter to everyone else's experience with GnuCash and
>>>> definitely is not what occurs in the transaction report in GnuCash 4.11
>>>> on Linux
>>>> Mint 20.3.  I suspect if it was occurring specifically on either a
>>>> MacOSX or
>>>> Windows systems we would have a large number of experienced users (and
>>>> some of
>>>> us are accountants and pretty pedantic about such aspects) complaining
>>>> pretty
>>>> loudly.  So we need to work out why your experience is completely
>>>> opposite to
>>>> everyone else's or whether it is just a misinterpretation of what is
>>>> being
>>>> displayed in the transaction report. In the transaction Report options
>>>> there is
>>>> an option in the Display tab to display one transaction per line or one
>>>> split
>>>> per line.  Using the second option one split  per line, both debit and
>>>> credit
>>>> entries for the transaction will be displayed  but entries not to the
>>>> accounts
>>>> selected in the transaction report will be in the second(and subsequent
>>>> lines
>>>> for transactions with more than two splits) and the different selected
>>>> account
>>>> entries will be listed in sections with the account name at the head. The
>>>> transaction report is possibly the most general of the reports and is
>>>> highly
>>>> customizable from the report options
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You seemed to express uncertainty about the account register. The way I
>>>>> enter transactions is to pick an account (for instance, by clicking on
>>>> it
>>>>> in a balance sheet). That opens the register tab, set to that account.
>>>> If I
>>>>> am remembering correctly, it will always list that account on the first
>>>>> line of the transaction, then you can add your currency total in
>>>> either the
>>>>> Debit or the Credit column for that account. For the balancing account
>>>> or
>>>>> accounts (in the case of a split), you similarly enter the currency
>>>> total
>>>>> for each account on a succeeding line, in either the debit or the
>>>> credit
>>>>> column, and select the account from a pulldown you can invoke from that
>>>>> line.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> While this works, A balance sheet, depending on the report options may
>>>> not show
>>>> all the accounts in your chart of accounts so it is limiting in which
>>>> accounts
>>>> you can choose to open. How you open the register tab for an account
>>>> does not
>>>> affect the order of display of the lines as it invokes the same routine
>>>> to open
>>>> the register. Double clicking on the icon for the account (looks a bit
>>>> like the
>>>> front of a colonial bank) in the Accounts tab will give you access to
>>>> all non-
>>>> hidden accounts (hidden accounts can be found with the Edit->Find Account
>>>> dialogue).
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is no specified order in the register view for the accounts
>>>> involved
>>>>> in a transaction; the account you selected to open the tab will always
>>>> be
>>>>> listed on the first line nd the succeeding lines will appear in the
>>>> order
>>>>> in which you entered them.
>>>> 
>>>> This is not necessarily the case. If you open an existing transaction in
>>>> an
>>>> asset register in either Auto-split or Transaction Journal mode if it is
>>>> a
>>>> credit transaction to the asset register (eg a bank account), the entry
>>>> to the
>>>> account for the register which is open will appear on the last line not
>>>> the
>>>> first. On the other hand if it is a transaction which debits an open
>>>> asset
>>>> account register it will appear first. I.e. the debit components of the
>>>> transaction is listed in the lines before the credit components in all
>>>> cases.
>>>> 
>>>> When you are entering a new transaction, if you do not specifically
>>>> select an
>>>> account in the Account column where "Account "is displayed in Italics in
>>>> the
>>>> first split entry, GnuCash will assume that it is the account of the
>>>> register
>>>> that is open (but you can explicitly select another account for the
>>>> first line,
>>>> in which case you have to explicitly select the account associate with
>>>> the
>>>> currently open register in another line of the transaction to complete
>>>> the
>>>> transaction. If you leave a subsequent line blank and press enter the
>>>> transaction will not be saved in the register.
>>>> 
>>>> You can also actually enter a transaction affecting any set of accounts
>>>> from
>>>> within a register which is not associated with any of those accounts as
>>>> long as
>>>> the debits and credits sum to zero just as you can edit the accounts in a
>>>> register and change the account in a split to the account of the open
>>>> register
>>>> to any other account  which will shift that split of the transaction to
>>>> the
>>>> other account and it will then display in the register for that account
>>>> when it
>>>> is opened.  This is quite often used with imported transactions which are
>>>> assigned to the wrong account to correct the transaction without
>>>> reimporting the
>>>> transaction.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> David Cousens
>>>>> I'm pretty new to Gnucash (or is it gnu to Newcash?), so maybe there is
>>>>> another way of entering transactions, but this is the one I know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -P.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 2:51 AM Adrien Monteleone <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I took another look at your initial report screenshot.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is correct and *not* reversed.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There are some parts of it missing, but you can see them in my
>>>>>> screenshot version.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The main difference otherwise in our two reports is that you've
>>>> listed
>>>>>> the Donations transaction first and the Checking transaction after.
>>>> (not
>>>>>> sure how that worked out, because I thought they appear in their
>>>> order
>>>>>> in the Account Tree, but I guess you have a customized reversed
>>>> sorting
>>>>>> order in Options > Sorting > Primary Sort Order > Descending.
>>>> Default is
>>>>>> Ascending)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The first line then, is from the perspective of the Donations
>>>> account.
>>>>>> In that account, the amount is a credit and that is what the report
>>>>>> shows, with the transfer account being Checking.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The second line is from the perspective of the Checking account, and
>>>>>> that amount is a debit (also correctly shown) with the transfer
>>>> account
>>>>>> being Donations.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can't find an option to turn off the Account name. I'm guessing you
>>>>>> copy/pasted the lines or blocked out that part resulting in missing
>>>> labels.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Look at my screenshot again showing both accounts ,and the extra
>>>> labels
>>>>>> and info, which should make the report more clear.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Adrien
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8/2/22 12:24 AM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>>>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes, I caught all of that.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm referring to default options of the report - not GnuCash
>>>> generally.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you have the report still open, close it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now, run it again. Note, you shouldn't get anything at first
>>>> except a
>>>>>>> page telling you that you need to set options first, particularly
>>>> to
>>>>>>> choose accounts.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Click the Options button on the toolbar, on the Accounts tab,
>>>> select
>>>>>>> only the Checking account. Set the date range however you like in
>>>> the
>>>>>>> General tab, but narrowing it down to the one day of the
>>>> transaction
>>>>>>> will remove cruft. Do not change any other report options.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You should now see a list of transactions on that date affecting
>>>> the
>>>>>>> Checking account.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Is it correct?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Note, if you have only that one transaction, you should see only
>>>> one
>>>>>>> line in the report, not two.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now, edit the Options > Accounts again, and this time, select
>>>> *both*
>>>>>>> Checking & Donations and click Apply.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now, you should see separate sections of the report, one for each
>>>>>>> account with subtotals and you'll see the same transaction twice,
>>>> once
>>>>>>> from the perspective of the Checking account, and the other from
>>>> the
>>>>>>> perspective of the Donation account.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I've done a sample transaction with similarly named Asset & Revenue
>>>>>>> accounts and attached screenshots of the register, the Transaction
>>>>>>> Report with just Checking selected, and the Transaction Report
>>>> with both
>>>>>>> Checking & Donation accounts selected.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If your report doesn't look exactly like this save for the specific
>>>>>>> Description and amount, something is off.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Adrien
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 8/2/22 12:05 AM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi, Adrian,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> My first image shows a single transaction (the "wepay to
>>>> checking"
>>>>>>>> transaction). But I separately pasted in the Checking balance
>>>> from the
>>>>>>>> previous transaction, which is not fully shown. I wanted the
>>>> reader to
>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>> that indeed the transaction I did show raised the Checking
>>>> balance. And
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> also pasted in the header line from the top of the page.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure which default/non-default options you are referring
>>>> to.
>>>>>>>> If you
>>>>>>>> mean using Debit/Credit headers as register labels instead of
>>>>>>>> Increase/Decrease, I tried it both ways and it didn't change the
>>>>>>>> appearance
>>>>>>>> of the transaction report.
>>>>>> 
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>>> 
> <Transactions, MacOS 10.16.2 
> (Catalina).png>_______________________________________________
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