On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 11:20:45PM +0100, Martin Schanzenbach wrote: > I see now that the public part does not fit into social/psyc. But I do
No, no. It is no problem to do public applications using pubsub, but I see no constructive use case for your technological idea. > not fully agree with your social theory. Even if I did the reverse > resolution of PKEYs is just logical. If I can use GNS to resolve No it is not logical. It is in the tradition of the old Internet, reconstructing structures that made us make a new Internet in the first place. > alice.bob.gnu to X then surely GNS should be able to map X to > alice.bob.gnu. Imagine receiving a message from X.zkey and the > application cannot map this to a previous conversation from alice. If Alice is in Bob's pubsub, then secushare can provide you with that information. > I think the common case for services is that I want them to be used by > _anyone_. No exceptions. I know spam is a pain, but unsolicited This is an ideological statement, not a use case, and it is reiterating old mistakes done by the designers of the old Internet. > messages from a person not (yet) in my social graph are not always There are two kinds of communications on the Internet. Those from people, and those from bots, spammers, phishers, spies and other nasty cyberweaponry. People will always somehow be in your social graph. Maybe not on your computer yet, but if they are trying to talk to you, then they probably went to your website, read your research paper and now ask to be able to interact with you. That we gladly do with a proper rendez-vous protocol. But the "no exceptions" thing you are talking about, like any spambot being able to connect my SMTP port just by knowing my pubkey.. well, that I think is a very bad idea. Did you actually read the pages I linked? Did you actually watch our presentation? Because you sound like you didn't and I have to repeat things that were written years before. Consider that we started thinking about social over pubsubs in 2003. > spam. And maybe they do not want to join my social graph at all (how is > a discussion between opposing parties supposed to be initiated? They > need to become acquainted? By that logic you must "friend" anyone Being in the social graph is not limited to being friends. Any discussion between people first requires that some people are guaranteeing that both sides are actually human, or otherwise we'll have influencer bots controlling public opinion on gnunet just as they are doing it on Twitter and Facebook. > anyway, eventually). I do still want to know _who_ that is, though. That's why not every contact is a friend. We're not Facebook. Our sociologist does not go by the surname Zuckerberg. > Maybe I have an (indirect) relationship. And for that I need to give > his identity a readable name. To do that I need a reverse resolution of > the identity information (PKEY). I cannot depend on my direct > relationships for that and I do not want to. But why should such a person get access to your VPN services? First make some degree of contact, use a proper protocol for that, then a .gnu can be automatically allocated. Nobody wants to see a domain name for that anyway- social user interfaces show names, not domains. > Assuming the other option (social only, direct relationships or > nothing) is the default it will inevitably create social bubbles that > are even harder to break out from than it is today (case in point: news > websites people read). > I have no hard evidence here, but I fear such a system will kill > critical discourse as you just surround yourself with similar thinking > peers, limit access to your services and are locked out from others. > Sounds like a great way to implement digital "safe spaces". On the contrary, only if there is a guarantee that the voices you read are real humans there can be a discourse in the first place, and only if those people are not anonymous but instead need to be careful about their reputation in order to not lose real-life friends, then they cannot engage in racism and homo- phobia without paying a social price. This is exactly the pre- condition for a reasonable and educated political discourse for the reasons elaborated in http://my.pages.de/convivenza. See also http://secushare.cheettyiapsyciew.onion/society > > Are you telling me the local ego has no way to enumerate > > their own GNS zone to find that person's pubkey? I assume the answer is, yes the ego can. > > Either we already know, or they do a proper introduction. It's like > > ringing the door bell before coming into my kitchen. Did you actually read this part? Because you answered as if I hadn't said this. > > In secushare I have pubsubs of all my social contacts. Each pubsub "All my social contacts" - where did it say friends? > > has a psycstore database. Depending on how much they like me and > > into which social groups they add me, I receive pubkeys of people > > they are connected to that I should be able to reach out to. See > > last month's secushare video for details on this (in German). So > > I already have my gnunet/secushare social graph in the psycstore > > database and just need to SELECT over it. No need to consult any > > DHT, let alone have it be public. > > > > More on this in... > > http://secushare.cheettyiapsyciew.onion/rendezvous > > http://secushare.cheettyiapsyciew.onion/identity > > http://secushare.cheettyiapsyciew.onion/security > > http://about.psyc.eu/social_graph These are the links you should have read before replying. -- E-mail is public! Talk to me in private using encryption: http://loupsycedyglgamf.onion/LynX/ irc://loupsycedyglgamf.onion:67/lynX https://psyced.org:34443/LynX/ _______________________________________________ GNUnet-developers mailing list [email protected] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnunet-developers
