https://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2012/11/08/was-theologian-hans-kung-ever-excommunicated/
Re. the above link, John, u r very right. Dr. Hans Küng was never
‘excommunicated, but the issue of its possibility came up in those years
(around 1975). However, if u read some of the documentation from the Mumbai
Church, they felt very humiliated by the treatment they got from the Vatican,
compared to the less harsh treatment of Dr. Kung.
In my view, Dr. Hans Kung was an outstanding scholar, & he painstakingly did
his research.
A towering figure in the Church, & he understood his place in Church history.
The Germans made great contributions to the Catholic Church, & some scholars
refer to ‘German-language concepts’ in their times to truly understand Catholic
Church history.
Thanks very much for engaging me in this discussion. For some years now, I have
not been actively researching new theological developments. Montreal has been
one of the cities active in Church history, French Canadian Catholic
institutions, but more from a French-language perspective historically than
German. WW1 & WW11 have had their impact & uneasiness continues even in
academic circles. THANKS !- Ivan D.
On Sunday, January 28, 2024, 14:13, John Nazareth <[email protected]>
wrote:
<!--#yiv1111837633 filtered {}#yiv1111837633 filtered {}#yiv1111837633 filtered
{}#yiv1111837633 p.yiv1111837633MsoNormal, #yiv1111837633
li.yiv1111837633MsoNormal, #yiv1111837633 div.yiv1111837633MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}#yiv1111837633
a:link, #yiv1111837633 span.yiv1111837633MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1111837633
p.yiv1111837633yahoo-quoted-begin, #yiv1111837633
li.yiv1111837633yahoo-quoted-begin, #yiv1111837633
div.yiv1111837633yahoo-quoted-begin
{margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",
sans-serif;}#yiv1111837633 span.yiv1111837633EmailStyle21
{font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv1111837633
.yiv1111837633MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv1111837633 filtered
{}#yiv1111837633 div.yiv1111837633WordSection1 {}-->
Hi Ivan
Hans Kung was never excommunicated. He lived his life to the end as a priest.
He was only not allowed to teach as a Catholic theologian in the U of Tubingen
but remained a prof at the university as a prof of Ecumenical Theology.
Check this link.
Hans Küng - Wikipedia
I must have 20 of his books and do not find anything objectional in his writing.
He once complained to the Vatican “Why are you giving me such a hard time –
several other theologians have said exactly the same thing as I have?” They
replied: “Yes, but you make it seem so believable”!!
I’ve his book “On Being a Christian which I’ve read over and over to help me in
my life – I’ve only read the Bible more often.
(By the way, my second favourite theologian is Pope Benedict XVI.)
But the point I was making in mentioning him is that I’m not a miracle groupie.
I don’t need to see miracles, but I will not deny them when I see them.
Regards
John
From: 'Ivan D.' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 12:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [GRN] A purported miracle by St. Francis Xavier
John Nazareth,
Dr. Hans Kung came to McGill U Faculty of Education in Montreal 3-4 times. He
loved Montreal.
I studied in some detail issues re. ‘the infallibility of the Pope’ ondoctrinal
matters, & whether & how in practice this applied to the College of Cardinals,
etc..
He was reprimanded by the Church (Vatican) & he was denied his ‘licence’ to
teach Catholic Theology at a prestigious German university.
All kinds of issues emerged re. independence of a university, etc., & the
Vatican's authority in the matter, & in the teaching of Catholic Theology.
At about the same time, the Catholic Bishop’s of India (Mumbai) asserted that
‘culture’ & ‘faith issues’ were separate, & it was planning to move closer
to’Indian culture’ with a Hindu-related belief-system & world-view.
Cardinal Ivan Dias was senior Cardinal & advisor to the Pope at the time, &
Bishop of Mumbai as well.
Pre-Partition, that was a huge territory, including Karachi, & that connection
remained.
I met Cardinal Ivan Dias 3-4 times, inc when he visited Montreal (he had
relatives in Toronto), & I met him in Rome.
A scholar in Theology, with a real doctorate (not ‘Honorary’) in Theology.
His successor in Mumbai, Cardinal Pimenta, was not a Latin scholar, but worked
himself up the Church hierarchy. Very down-to-earth. Both had their offices
close to the Mahim Catholic Church, on the other side, next to the Diocese
offices.
Dr. Hans Kung wrote a lengthy defence of his position. I ordered 2 copies from
Rome & read it, gave one copy to the McGill U Library Reference section.
Truly a scholar! 🙏🏽✝️
He was excommunicated, & his university changed his status to Prof of World
Religions, & Comparative Religions, as the Vatican vetoed his right to teach
his regular Catholic Theology courses.
The Bishops of Mumbai also put out a lengthy statement, at about the same time,
& they agreed with the Vatican position, limiting drastically their division of
faith & culture. Pope John 23rd passed away, & Pope John Paul 11 then steered
the Church to very ‘conservative’ interpretations of Theology & belief.
Dr. Hans Kung was an unusual theologian.
He was in great physical shape, exercised in the gym, etc., & understood deeply
the distinctions & history.
Re. SFX, I passed by the coffin 3 times since age 10, each time the claim was
it was the last time, & now it seems every 10 years. When I was 10, the queue
was miles, & we stood outside for 6-7 hours, my mum, etc..
I forget where & when I went to make ‘susu’ 😩😁! bladder relief ! Saiba Bugos !
🙏🏽 Kitay Salunga Tuka ?
- Ivan D.
Ivan D. Pereira
Dum Spiro Spera - when I breathe, I hope
(when I pee, I am relieved of much anxiety.
On Sunday, January 28, 2024, 11:43, John Nazareth <[email protected]>
wrote:
I Understand peoples' hysteria over the body of St Francis Xavier. Many people
still call it "the incorruptible body" when in fact it is just skin over bones.
But miracles is another issue. Let me say at the onset that I have been
studying the Bible, theology, on my own for 35 years. My favourite theologian
is Fr. Hans Kung. I have strong faith and do not depend on miracles to support
it. But I will also not deny miracles that I have seen with my own eyes. I
attach a piece that I wrote in 1992 when my wife and I went with a prayer group
to see the late Fr. Diorio. I'll let you read it. (All the same, I accept that
not all claims of "miracles" are true.)
John Nazareth
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bernardo de Sousa' via Goa-Research-Net
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 8:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [GRN] A purported miracle by St. Francis Xavier
João Paulo Cota has a point but it's not only boundless imagination. Ignorance
and superstition also play an important role.
https://www.calebcolley.com/ignorance-belief-miracles/
> On 28 Jan 2024, at 12:42, Joao Paulo Cota <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I have checked the Portuguese press and also books on the 1961 events, there
> is no mention of anything similar.
> If such an event of such importance or impact would had actually taken place,
> then who can explain the silence of the other 99 soldiers plus others in the
> basilica? Was this guy the only one who felt something special? Surely
> something very unusual would had got press coverage at the time, not some 50
> years later...
> There is a Goan story told over the years that at the time where the body was
> supposed to have been moved from the Se Catedral building to the Basilica,
> one of the two holy water fonts at the Se Catedral cracked and broke into two
> pieces. So apparently, the body was returned to the original place at the Se
> Catedral. However, I had never come across any historical evidence to backup
> such claim and also whilst checking the original water fonts, there seems to
> be no evidence of it being either cracked, repaired or replaced - both match
> in colour and shape....
> After all, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, there is no boundaries
> for one's imagination.
> Regards,
> JPFrom: [email protected]
> <[email protected]> on behalf of Frederick Noronha
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: 28 January 2024 09:46
> To: [email protected]
> <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [GRN] A purported miracle by St. Francis Xavier One
> person's claims.
> This is a newspaper reader's letter-to-the-editor.
> Obviously doing the rounds since before 2011.
> It seems to have got a new lease of life in cyberspace recently.
> FN
>
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2024 at 02:05, Helga Do Rosario Gomes
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> Does anyone know anything about this incident?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Goa-Research-Net" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email [email protected].
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/C01DD6F2-6309-4A8D-819D-0E9FA4A87F5F%40gmail.com.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Goa-Research-Net" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email [email protected].
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/C01DD6F2-6309-4A8D-819D-0E9FA4A87F5F%40gmail.com.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Goa-Research-Net" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email [email protected].
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53JjnPg0CVn0YjFKhUFAkt6rrwm8nV_YLB_C%2BZCZE8Soag%40mail.gmail.com.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Goa-Research-Net" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email [email protected].
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/GV2P195MB2161351C91E2ABC7E8E3FBC9827F2%40GV2P195MB2161.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To view this discussion on the web, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/DE9F6BE2-513F-49B5-B9F9-3D47F9AEF8D5%40gmx.ch.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To view this discussion on the web, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/IA1PR11MB61471BD43CA4135E76646820FF7F2%40IA1PR11MB6147.namprd11.prod.outlook.com.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
[email protected].
To view this discussion on the web, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/909208727.1977750.1706464484787%40mail.yahoo.com.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/IA1PR11MB61479DF9129929EDB66107A8FF7F2%40IA1PR11MB6147.namprd11.prod.outlook.com.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/1974508722.2003596.1706470688700%40mail.yahoo.com.
