Dear Eddie, I have changed the title of the "Subject" line to "Mangoes". After all, it is with Mangoes that we have been and are dealing in this useful exchange of views.
> > Good, we are making slow progress . > I agree. > > The question is what that variety of fruit is commonly called in English > today. We are not disputing the quality of the product. Sour fruit, > indeed! We are agreed that the Portuguese called it Malcorada but all > references to it in the recent and particularly scientific literature, refer > to it as Mankurad. > Who ever referred to "Sour fruit"? OK, agreed that recent literature refers to "malcorada" as "mankurad"; but this doesn't mean that "mankurad" is correct, does it? > > You have quoted from "A Treasure Trove of Goan Mango Dishes" by Nilima M. > Kamat). Excellent! If you care to check page 10, you will find it called > mankurad. Then, on pages 125-126 there is a list of some 100 Goan mango > varieties, including mankurad. So cast aside thy blinkers! > Yes, I did find it. But there are also other names which are distortions from the original Portuguese names like "mussarat" instead of "monserrate", "fernandin" and "furtad" instead of "fernandina" and "furtado", "malgesh" instead of "malgessa", "culas" instead of "colaco" (2nd "c" with cedilla) and "sakri" instead of "sacarina". So what? As English is now more and more a "global" language, perhaps we must eventually bow to whatever aberrations (like the above) crop up in this language, in detriment to the purity of the original Portuguese words. I have no blinkers whatsoever. > > You write: > >Prior to 1961, Konkani speaking people always referred to it as "malcurad" > >and I never remember hearing "mankurad". > Are you therefore agreeing that it is now called mankurad? > How can I deny a fact? "Contra factos nao ha argumentos" (There are no arguments against facts), as we say in Portuguese. I have already agreed that now it is (unfortunately, though) called "mankurad". > > Check the Proceedings of the International Mango Conferences or the Indian > Horticultural Society publications or any modern English study. Since we > are communicating in English in 2002 let us keep to that and not switch to > 17th century Portuguese! > > Language evolves. Where does one start? The Portuguese term manga is > derived from the Tamil mangay. Does one therefore challenge the Portuguese > for corrupting the word or are they too exalted? > I have not switched (and am not switching) to the 17th century Portuguese. The Portuguese language has also evolved a lot, as I suppose you know - the surname "Vaas" became "Vaz", "pharmacia" became "farmacia", "Rodolpho" became "Rodolfo", etc. but "malcorada" remained "malcorada" throughout all these centuries. K.T. Acharya in "A Historical Dictionary of Indian Food" says on p. 140: "In Tamil, the fruit is called manga, or man-kai, which is perhaps a euphonic transposition of am-kai (mango fruit) from the Sanskrit amra". From this, would we be justified in accusing the Tamilians of having corrupted a Sanskrit word? No. Besides, as according to the quoted text in Tamil it is either man-kai (not mangay) or manga, and as in Portuguese the fruit is called manga, the name was transposed without change from Tamil to Portuguese. On the other hand, Mgr. Sebastiao Rodolfo Dalgado in his "Glossario Luso-Asiatico" (vol. II p. 27) says that the Portuguese word "manga" comes from the Malayali "manga" and Tamil "mankay", adding that "mankay" is in fact the name of the raw fruit while the ripe fruit's name is "mampallam", and that the Malay "manga" is of Indian origin, introduced there by the Portuguese, but that the fruit is more usually called "mempelam". > > You wrote previously: > >The correct term is "mal corada" = "poorly coloured" or "ill coloured" > and nobody seems > >to know why such a name was given to it, as both inside and outside its > colour is good. > I not only accepted that it was called malcorda but offered an explanation > why this was so. Do you accept that as plausible? > No problem about the explanation offered by you: it is plausible, yes, although I don't believe that the yellow colour (as opposed to the red one) has anything to do with it. Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-W-E-B---S-I-T-E-=-=-= To Subscribe/Unsubscribe from GoaNet | http://www.goacom.com/goanet =================================================================== For (un)subscribing or for help, Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dont want so many e=mails? Join GoaNet-Digest instead ! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Help support non-commercial projects in Goa by advertizing!! * * * * Your ad here !!
