goanet-digest Thursday, May 2 2002 Volume 01 : Number 3920
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this issue:
[Goanet] Dr. Ismael Gracias / Uma Dona Portuguesa ...
[Goanet] Goans meet in Delhi
Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
Re: [Goanet] Does anybody care about this ?
Re: [Goanet] Does anybody care about this ?
[Goanet] Goan politics
See end of digest for information on subscribing/unsusbcribing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 12:14:27 +0100
From: ricardo nunes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] Dr. Ismael Gracias / Uma Dona Portuguesa ...
I would like to have a copy of the book written by the late Dr. Ismael
Gracias about the Portuguese lady (Juliana) who was an ancestor of the
Begums of Bhopal - "Uma Dona Portuguesa na Corte do Gr=E3o Mogol"
I would be very grateful if anyone could help me finding a place to buy the
book.
Many thanks and regards,
Ricardo Nunes
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:15:46 +0800
From: "Fatima Pais M (EIL)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] Goans meet in Delhi
"Goenkarancho Ekvot" New Delhi is organising a seminar on "Goa Today -
Tomorrow" on 4th May, 2002. Various environmental, economical, social,
cultural and tourism related issues pertaining to Goa will be discussed.
Shripad Naik, Union Minister of State for Shipping, will inaugurate the
Seminar. Experts in various fields have been invited to address the
gathering. There will also be question and answer sessions and group
discussions." - Fatima Pais
Fatima Pais
Manager - Internal Communications
Marketing & Internal Communications
Ericsson India Private Limited
The Great Eastern Plaza
2A Bhikaji Cama Place
New Delhi 110 066
Phone: +91 011 618 0808/670 1408
Fax : +91 011 618 7137
email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.ericsson.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:39:15 +0400
From: "Sunila Muzawar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
>From: Tariq Siddiqui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Sunila Muzawar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
>Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:24:12 -0500 (CDT)
>
>
>Without going into the details of the laundry list that Sunila has
>provided, I would just like to know that is there a qualifier that exists
>that requires any writer to include all of those remarks below when
>writing on Gujarat and India?
Not really. And I didn't say Arundhati had to so that. I said it would have
been nice if she had also noticed and written about other atrocities that
have been occurring before Gujarat.
>Sunila, please take the time to answer this one. If your answer is in the
>affirmative, then why don't you include and require Arundhati Roy to
>also include the following:
>
>1. The atrocities of the Indian Armed forces in Kashmir and Punjab.
I think she has mentioned this in some of her other write ups that I have
read.
>2. The killings of thousands of Muslims in Nellie, Bhagalpur, Kanpur,
>Bhiwandi, Bombay, Ahmedabad (69).
Thanks for reminding me. This definitely should be added to the list. And
also another one on all the Hindus killed in riots in Hyderabad, and other
Muslim dominated riot areas. And another one on the Dawood and ISI led
Bombay blasts and the Shiv Sena led riots.
>3. Statements of Ashok Singhal and Giriraj Kishore.
I think I did include the VHP. And since these folks are part of the VHP
they are included. But if you would like to keep them separate to emphasize
the point further, then I have no problem.
>4. The selective targetting of Muslim businesses in previous riots (as
>if>one rich Muslim makes up for the rest).
This is a common phenomena of every riot. And it is not only Muslim
businesses. In Muslim dominated areas Hindu businesses are targeted and in
Hindu dominated areas Muslim businesses are targeted. Besides she has
discussed it in great length over the Gujarat riots. But if you would like
to add it to the list, I am ready for it. But only with both perspectives
covered.
>...and on and on.
Exactly ! Why just single out one incident when several are occurring
everyday ?
>I fail to understand why you keep on choosing to be the apologist for a
>regime and people who know no morals. Your defense is nothing but
>a pathetic attempt to sugar coat one of the worst atrocities in India.
>To think that if some one does not talk of other crimes, they condone
>it,>just goes on to show how narrow minded your thought process has been
>reduced to.
It's easy to call someone narrow minded and names like that. I can also do
the same if I choose to. After all when have you ever voiced concern for
anything other than stuff that is Muslim related or Pakistan related ? But I
won't stoop to those levels. As far as being an "apologist" for the current
regime is concerned I don't think I am one. I know they are bad (and have
said so several times. But you can choose to ignore it if you like.) But so
are the others as far as I am concerned. After all, riots have occurred
during the Congress regimes also. If anything, this particular riot was
started by Congress municipal councillors and mayor at Godhra.
>I think it is about time you woke up to the reality that people do not
>have a habit of talking about twenty thousand atrocities at the same time,
>even if it is solely for the purpose of "context". If today, I choose to
>condemn the government of Gujarat for its crimes, that does not mean I
>condone all that is going on in China. It is quite dissappointing to note
>that despite being a student of Sharada Mandir, your thought process
>continues to be incoherent.
>
You have a big chip on the shoulder about Sharada Mandir, Tariq. Looks like
all your other academic experiences pale into insignificance and that of
Sharada Mandir stands tall in your life. Nice advertisement for our school.
Unfortunately, the school did not succeed in changing your judgemental
attitude. People like Arundhati Roy are noticed in this world. It is
important that they write with a broader mind and without the narrow and
small perspectives of the average communal mentality of most people. I would
truly like her to write about the other atrocities in India. Not in the
message about Gujarat of course. I never said that. But she could mention it
in her other writings. But time and again you see people like her and the
media ignoring some sections of our citizens because the atrocities
inflicted on them are so common and so much a part of daily life that it
does not make sensational news. I object to that. Why don't you ?
Cheers,
Sunila
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:55:38 +0400
From: "Sunila Muzawar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Does anybody care about this ?
And even though you did respond, it was only to berate me. Tch tch tch ! I
don't see any expression of concern from yourself for the poor children
mentioned in the article.
Now let's put the word Muslim in the article title so that it reads
"Innocence assaulted: The trauma of "Muslim" child workers". Will that bring
out some eloquence from you to identify your outrage on the matter ? Somehow
I cannot imagine you taking that indifferent attitude now.
That was exactly what I have been trying to point out. Prove to me that I
was wrong and I will be the happiest person on earth. Because then I can see
even more hope for my country. When people like you and me focus on such
issues and question why all political parties with the ruling Vajpayee Govt.
in particular ignores such horrid instances of life in India things will
change in India? When Parliament is held to ransom on such issues India will
begin to make progress. Unfortunately many of us feel and show passionate
outrage only for religious killings and issues in our country.
Cheers,
Sunila
>From: Tariq Siddiqui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Sunila Muzawar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [Goanet] Does anybody care about this ?
>Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:49:07 -0500 (CDT)
>
>
>Obviously not, according to your logic, because nobody posted this message
>and nobody responded to it, nobody cares about it. All the 1000 or so
>members
>of Goanet are a group of heartless rascals who gleefully take delight in
>the sufferings of others.
>
>Great line of thought. Let me know when your brain comes back from the
>extended vacation it has been on.
>
>-Tariq
>
>
>On Wed, 1 May 2002, Sunila Muzawar wrote:
>
> > Does anybody care about this ? Or are we going to say that these
>children
> > are coming from the majority or minority or this religion or that
>religion
> > or this caste or that caste, or whatever and ignore it since it does not
> > affect us ?
> >
> > www.sify.com
> > Innocence assaulted: The trauma of child workers
> > Bangalore, May 1
>
>--
>Tariq Siddiqui
>[ This Space for Rent ]
>
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:22:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tariq Siddiqui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Does anybody care about this ?
Its very interesting to note that Sunila follows a warped logic that if a
person does not express outrage over a certain incident, in a manner that is
defined by her, that person condones the crime.
Thankfully, the rest of humanity does not follow this logic. If they did,
then we would have a world where each person would be raking up horror
stories by the dozen, each deadlier than the other, just to prove that
he/she is not condoning any crime.
- -Tariq
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Sunila Muzawar wrote:
> And even though you did respond, it was only to berate me. Tch tch tch ! I
> don't see any expression of concern from yourself for the poor children
> mentioned in the article.
>
> Now let's put the word Muslim in the article title so that it reads
> "Innocence assaulted: The trauma of "Muslim" child workers". Will that bring
> out some eloquence from you to identify your outrage on the matter ? Somehow
> I cannot imagine you taking that indifferent attitude now.
>
> That was exactly what I have been trying to point out. Prove to me that I
> was wrong and I will be the happiest person on earth. Because then I can see
> even more hope for my country. When people like you and me focus on such
> issues and question why all political parties with the ruling Vajpayee Govt.
> in particular ignores such horrid instances of life in India things will
> change in India? When Parliament is held to ransom on such issues India will
> begin to make progress. Unfortunately many of us feel and show passionate
> outrage only for religious killings and issues in our country.
> Cheers,
> Sunila
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 07:33:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] Goan politics
- --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Date: 1st May, 2002
> As an indication of enthusiasm of party sympathizers, he stated that the
> official website of the State www.goabjp.com received more than 1,35,000
> hits in first eight days and in an envious reaction, the site was hacked
> by opposition. There were more than 300 e-mails per day from Goans in Goa
> and abroad. They were mostly from Christians and more than 90% were
> supportive of him and his government. This was an indication that the
> vilification campaign will increase in near future.
Dear Cybergoans:
It had to happen sooner or later - the internet used for political propanganda in Goa.
This is
not necessarily a bad thing as it will allow cybergoans an opportunity to better
understand the
parties (although the logic of the excerpt above completely escapes me). Besides Goa
Su-Raj and
the BJP, perhaps we can hear from MGP, UDP, Congress, etc.?
Here is a request: does anyone have a list of the top 5 priorities each party will
take care of
if elected. I understand there is a huge distance between promises and action and
rarely do the
two meet, but it would be a useful start to undertanding what the parties think are
Goa's current
priorities. The very general political-speak and glorious platitudes are not
specific. I hope
someone can provide this reference list (call it a "Voter's Guide" to the political
parties if you
wish).
And on an unrelated topic, if someone is ambitious enough can we get a top 5 list of
advantages
and disadvantages as it relates to Portuguese colonial rule in Goa. I am curious to
see what
SPECIFIC items Goans consider as advantages and disadvantages. Too often I read
generalities.
For example when one speaks of British colonial rule, a SPECIFIC advantage listed
sometimes is the
widespread use of English and the rail system and a SPECIFIC disadvantage is said to
be the civil
service which spawned today's inefficient and corrupt bureaucracy (whether one agrees
with this
assessment is not important). What I am trying to undertand are the top 5 SPECIFIC
claims as to
advantages, disadvantages.
Regards,
George
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
------------------------------
End of goanet-digest V1 #3920
*****************************
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--W-E-B--S-I-T-E--=-=-=
To Subscribe/Unsubscribe from GoaNet Digest | http://goacom.com/goanet
======================================================================
* Send e=mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NOT [EMAIL PROTECTED])
* Leave SUBJECT blank <--- Commom Mistake !!
* On first line of the BODY of your message, type:
subscribe goanet-digest YOUR.EMAIL
OR unsubscribe goanet-digest YOUR.EMAIL
DO NOT include the entire digest when replying to goanet !!!!!!
Questions/Problems? Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
