goanet-digest Thursday, May 2 2002 Volume 01 : Number 3921
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In this issue:
Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
[Goanet] What's new on GoaNet... not just news, but discussion too
Re: [Goanet] Mental health -- a Goan myth
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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:29:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tariq Siddiqui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Sunila Muzawar wrote:
> attitude. People like Arundhati Roy are noticed in this world. It is
> important that they write with a broader mind and without the narrow and
> small perspectives of the average communal mentality of most people. I would
> truly like her to write about the other atrocities in India. Not in the
> message about Gujarat of course. I never said that. But she could mention it
> in her other writings. But time and again you see people like her and the
> media ignoring some sections of our citizens because the atrocities
> inflicted on them are so common and so much a part of daily life that it
> does not make sensational news. I object to that. Why don't you ?
So your main peeve with Arundhati Roy is the fact that she wrote an
article on the crimes of Gujarat, but did not write about other incidents
across the country.
That once again comes to the question. Is there a qualifier that exists
that requires a writer to write on the other "crimes" first before writing
about Gujarat?
If that is the case then I think our English teachers across the world
omitted teaching us the Sunila Doctrine, which is, namely, that before
writing on any issue, you *must* write on issues near and dear to Sunila,
otherwise, the rest of Goanet will get another long mail from the
apologists of the Hindu Right.
Literary critique usually means that you criticize the writings of an
author either for factual errors, incompleteness, misinterpretations,
scope or generalizations. Sunila's critique goes a step further. She has
has decided that criticism now also includes what you did not write about.
What next? Are we going to fault Khushwant Singh for never writing about
the diminishing rainfall in Cherrapunji? Or are we going to denigrate
Robert Fisk for failing to ever write a word of compassion for the
displaced nomads of Turkmenistan?
It does seem, from the Sunila Doctrine, that the sorrow of one person
in Gujarat is inconsequential because of the sufferings of millions of
others. And any attempt to grieve for them, or express outrage, is an
outrage in itself.
I fail to understand the logic of this argument. It seems that, I cannot
even mourn the death of my father unless I mourn the death of everyone
else's father with the same passion and grief.
As an aside, I have ignored your counter-claims of tragedy for precisely
the same reason I had put mine - they serve no purpose!
Tragedy is meant to be grieved, pondered upon and reflect, not used as an
opportunity to submit counter claims of even more horrific tragedies.
- --
Tariq Siddiqui
[ This Space for Rent ]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 21:31:26 +0530 (IST)
From: Frederick Noronha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] What's new on GoaNet... not just news, but discussion too
*************************************************************
What's new on GoaNet ****************************************
*************************************************************
These are some of the items recently posted to GoaNet/GoaNetDigest:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22033
Eddie Fernandes on mangoes in Goa. An interesting debate involving many.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22037
One critique of the PM's Campal (Goa)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22041
Parrikar senses impending defeat. Aires Rodrigues
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22044
Viviana posts GoaNet's rules and regulations... in case you didn't know
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22046
Report of the GOA CAN Earth Day meeting. Goa Desc
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22047 22048 etc
What really happened in Gujarat... different versions
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22054
A. Veronica Fernandes argues the need for an "expatriate Goans voice", in
the form of a newspaper funded by expats.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22056
Dr William Robert Da Silva, in his inimitable style, joins the mango debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22060
Fr Nascimento from Vasco regales with tales from yesterday's Goa.
Today's installment: Bikareanchem Jevon (The Beggar's Feast)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22008
Peter D'Mello is back on GoaNet!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22010
Poaching threatens Indian Swiftlet * By Devika Sequeira
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22013
Brazilians call the shot in top Indian football league
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22020
Goan Goan on the Goa-Net by Prof Alberto Gomes
Don't miss this essay which traces the growth of GoaNet, since the days a
teenager decided to have a sort of tea-party in Boston!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22021
Margaret Mascarenhas, ex-editor of Society, talks why mental health is a
"Goan myth".
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22024
BJP sends in their side of the story... from Goa
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/22031
Cybermatrimonials... Goans in Goa, UAE, Dubai etc
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/21974
Desacho fuddar koslea hatant? (Ixtt)
Brush up your Konkani with this simple-to-follow bilingual text.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/21977
India may grant dual citizenship; but at what terms!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/21987
Is Goan music really facing a vacuum?
One in a series of Victor Hugo Gomes' interesting articles on Goan music.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/2199-
Vasco gets an IT exhibition of its own.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/21998
CalanguteNet... a new mailing list for people from Calangute.
To join, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/21953
MapusaPLUS: News from Mapusa and Bardez from Goa's young fortnightly
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/21954
Should BJP be made to pay for Gujarat? By Goa Unravelled, another new mag
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/messages/21965
INTERVIEW: Parrikar -- engineering another Goa? Pamela D'Mello interviews
the chief minister of Goa on a number of contentious issues.
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Check out Goa-Net: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-net/
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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 19:16:33 +0100
From: "Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Mental health -- a Goan myth
It's wonderful to know that there was no question of "underhand business".
As
we say in Portruguese, "Jah cah nao estah quem falou" (in this case being
"quem escreveu").
The problem is that everytime that I have been to Goa, and when I am with my
relatives and friends, the issue of obtention of Portuguese Nationality is
always broached and people have tried to imply that there is corruption at
the "Conservatoria dos Registos Centrais" and I have always defended "my
dame" with examples and refusing to accept "diz-se, diz-se" or rumours.
Most of the netters must have realized who the "former judge" you refer to
is. Nobody has asked me to defend this judge from anything but since I read
something which did not appear to be very warranting to his name I just
tried to put the records straight about why some files move fast and some
get "stuck" at the "Conservatoria".
Just an additional information. The judge only came to Portugal after he
retired from his post in Goa. It is his option. And since in India
Government employees retire early he keeps himself busy by rendering his
services to Goans who approach him. In order to ascertain whether he is good
or bad at what he does it would be fair if other clients of his came with
the outcries. I don't think the ones who find him good are anymore in Goa as
they must have migrated already.
I have come across many Goans who come to Portugal to make their IDs and
passports. I have crossed with them in various parts of Lisbon and even met
a few in Fatima. Since they usually converse among them in Konkani I
approach them and start conversation with them. And my subsequent question
is
always "who handled your papers" and invariably the reply is " Dr. So &
So".
So, I sincerely apologise to everyone for ever having even thought of , let
alone written, the words "corruption" and "bribery".
Livia de Abreu Noronha
Original Message -----
From: "M Mascarenhas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Mental health -- a Goan myth
> Excuse me, but where is the question of any "underhanded business" going
on
> in this column? People pay agents and lawyers legal fees to follow up on
> their paperwork all the time. These are not bribes; they are perfectly
> legitimate. My point is that some agents are more responsible and/or
quicker
> at this job than others. So, what exactly do you wish to "investigate"?
>
> Margaret Mascarenhas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "M Mascarenhas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Goa-Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Mental health -- a Goan myth
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "M Mascarenhas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> > > A few days later, while I was fighting off all the line cutters at the
> > Civil
> > > Registrar in the queue for applying for birth certificates (which is,
> > > thankfully, shorter than the queue for reconnecting your telephone), I
> met
> > a
> > > mechanic friend of mine who told me he was migrating to Portugal. He
was
> > > very excited about his plans. I asked him how long it had taken for
him
> to
> > > process his papers for a Portuguese passport. A few months, he said,
and
> I
> > > was so distracted by his reply, that one of the cutters managed to
slip
> in
> > > ahead of me. The mechanic confided that the entire process had been
> > > expedited because he paid an agent in Lisbon 500 USD to follow up on
> that
> > > end. That's interesting, I thought, because one of my friends paid a
> > lawyer
> > > around that amount almost four years ago to do the same thing, and she
> > still
> > > hasn't managed to get her documentation in order. She told me her
lawyer
> > is
> > > a former High Court judge from Margao, now residing in Lisbon. Now,
why
> a
> > > High Court judge would leave his job in Goa to fiddle around with
> passport
> > > papers in Portugal (especially when he clearly isn't very good at it),
> is
> > > beyond me. If you ask me, that surely qualifies for contempt more than
> > > Arundhatti Roy's dabblings in polemics. Personally, I wish Roy would
> give
> > up
> > > this Noam Chomsky impersonation and stick to fiction which is her
forte,
> > but
> > > that's another story.
> >
> > It is interesting what M. Mascarenhas writes about her mechanic friend
and
> > the
> > expediting of matters for "process his papers for a Portuguese Passport"
> at
> > this
> > end.
> >
> > There are are lots of Goans, either former Judges from post 61 Goa or
> > laywyers/solicitors, or even lay people, who help the Goans to get their
> > births and marriages registered at the "Conservatoria dos Registos
> Centrais"
> > in Lisbon. Only after the birth is registered and with the presentation
of
> > a birth certificate issued by the said Conservatoria can an ID be
obtained
> > and only then the passport.
> >
> > The time it takes for a file ("processo") to be finalized can take ages
or
> > can
> > take just a year or a few months. It is not fair to give an idea that
> there
> > is some "underhand" business going on. I have helped , mind the word,
> > helped many Goans and taken care of the filing of their papers at the
> > "Conservatoria". Some have moved quickly and the others haven't and
there
> > are
> > valid reasons for that. There are many discrepancies, either in the
names
> of
> > the person, in the parents' names or places of birth or in the Resident
> > Certificates submitted and when the interested parties are requested to
> get
> > the divergency certificates issued or obtain the relevant document
> > corrected it just takes them ages.
> >
> > I have an example where somebody (born in Goa prior to 1961) who
submitted
> > his papers at the Portuguese Consulate in Goa in June 1999 and when I
> > happened to be in Goa asked me to do the follow up in Lisbon - which I
> did,
> > had his file "appreciated" only in the year 2000 because the number
> > attributed to the file is ------/00 and had his birth registered in
> October
> > 2001 . I
> > did not charge him anything, and I did not pay anyone anything to make
his
> > file "move". I don't have any important people within the
"Conservatoria",
> > and even if I did I would be the last one to use my influence.
> >
> > When I feel that there is incompetence from the part of the Government
> > officers, I write to the Ministers, as I have on several occasions. I
have
> > complained to the Minister for Law when things did not move at the
> > "Conservatoria". I have complained to the Consular Services of the
Foreign
> > Misnistry of Portugal about the "affairs" at the Portuguese Consulate in
> Goa
> > and I can tell you I have had very satisfactory replies and solution of
> the
> > cases presented. And I have paid nothing and charged nothing.
> >
> > I have advised the people, who have come to me asking me to take up
their
> > cases, to send direct e-mails to the corresponding Ministries and I
> give
> > below the addresses:
> >
> > MNE (Ministerio dos Negocios EStrangeiros [Foreign Affairs Ministry]) -
AC
> e
> > CP - Direccao Geral de Accao Consular e Comunidades Portuguesas
> > E-mail Address(es):
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Gabinete do Ministro da Justi�a (Law Ministry)
> > E-mail Address(es):
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Conservatoria dos Registos Centrais
> > E-mail Address(es):
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Anyone can write to them in English and you will definitely get a reply,
> but
> > in Portuguese.
> >
> > I mentioned of a case that moved fast even to my surprise and this was
due
> > to the fact that documents came via the consulate, duly certified in
every
> > sense.
> >
> > Now I have a case of 1990. In this case a lady. Her papers and her
> husband's
> > papers were submitted by me in Nov. 1990. The husband's filed moved fast
> and
> > he
> > had the birth registration completed in July 91, marriage registered
> October
> > 91 and even the son got his birth registerd by July 94. But the lady is
> > still to get hers. And do you know why?
> > Incomplete names here and incomplete names there. And this is what I
wrote
> > to her lately:
> > ".........
> > it has been so "typical" of every Goan, save rare exceptions, including
my
> > family. Everytime that the ball is in their court they just keep hugging
> it
> > and sleep with it, until one day they just wake up and find the ball
under
> > their bedsheet and then they shoot it with all their might to the other
> end
> > and they expect the adversary to shoot it back even before the ball has
> had
> > time to reach the other court!!!!! Amazing, is it not?"
> >
> > I cannot accept that there is place for bribery at the top level at the
> > "Conservatoria".
> >
> > So if M Mascarenhas could kindly get more information from her mechanic
> > friend, only about the dates of submission of documents and where
> submitted,
> > I think the netters would be greatly pleased. There is no access to the
> > files
> > to any and everyone and everytime a Goa related file is accessed the act
> is
> > duly
> > registered. So any "investigation" on why it moved fast can easily be
> > initiated as long as there are proofs that it did .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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End of goanet-digest V1 #3921
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