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"Kolngutey and Mhapshyanh"
I cannot write Konkani either in 'Roman script' or 'Devnagri script'.
However, I have few Konknni writers in Roman script including Fr. Antonio
Pereira SJ who does not use Roman Alphabet 'y' in his Konknni books.
However, this can be clarified from ex-president of KBM bhaii Mr. Damodar
Mauzo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IMHO, the need of 21st Century for writing Konkani in Romi script is due to
internet communication (not that Devnagri cannot be used) like goanet. After
living away from Goa over a decade I am forgetting Konkani, the language of
our land Goa, perhaps due to my young age :-).
Some Goanetters may feel that the Konknni script issue is settled long back
in Goa, India politically and culturally. However, time has come for
overseas Goans, particularly at this time of dual citizenship for PIO not to
forget Konkani but to learn and promote it (perhaps we could include in our
New Year's resolution). And, in order to achieve this, the Romi Konknni
script is very important for overseas Goans both, now and in future.
I am neither raising this (Konknni script) issue again nor I am a
non-starter on script issue. The need of written communication in Konkani
over internet in Roman script is the need of the 21st century perhaps born
along with the offer of 'dual citizenship for PIO'.
BTW, I am longing to speak in Konkani as well as to eat the Goan spicy
"xacutti".
Cip Fernandes
-----Original Message-----
Of Sunila Muzawar wrote on January 2003 07:53
Hi Fred,
Fred, I warn you that I have taken this issue up very seriously and you will
have to reckon with my indepth knowledge of konknii and Goa. :-) I am
inclined to insist that Calangute should be Kolngutey and not Congutti. The
"l" which in Konknii is a pretty deeply pronounced consonant and should be
probably written as "ll"...a double l is not pronounced properly by a
section of Goans. In fact they leave it out altogether. The same with
"deull" or temple. Many Goans (mostly the Christian and also the Hindi
speaking people from the rest of India) leave out the deep l and replace it
with a light l sound or even a "d" sound. So they say "deudann" instead of
"deullann" and so on.
Now the reason for the deep l not being pronounced is due to the Portuguese
influence or Hindi influence which does not have this phonetic. That does
not mean Konknii does not have it. It does and we should get it right.
As far as the others go, the Konknii pronouciation of what we now write as
Mapusa definitely has a more "ha" sound after the M and a nasal "n" sound at
the end. So I still vote for Mhapshyanh....although I don't mind changing it
to Mhapsheanh.....in fact maybe that is more correct. And although I agree
with the general spelling for Margao that you have given I still cannot
accept the O in it because the O is pronounced almost silently here and in
all probability should be written as Madganv.
And Goyan is better for Goa while Goen could also be considered. The whole
problem is some idiot who knew more Portuguese than English wrote out the
English spellings to names of places in Goa. That's why they wrote Panjim
where they expected the m to be silent. But that's not the way English would
pronounce it. And now we are left with a foreign sounding capital name which
no real Goan ever uses expect when he/she converses in English.
This is fun. It is also quite hilarious to see the various inputs to this
debate.
>The problem is that the expat-imagine Goa is quite a different animal from
> >what is the current ruling ideology in Goa itself.
I agree that Goa means different things to different people. And that's
okay. But that is also why many people of Goan origin no longer fit in Goa
when they return to Goa after being away for long, abroad.
E.g. we have a miniscule portion of the expats on this forum who have hardly
even gone to Goa more than a few times in the last twenty years, who happen
to think that they know it all. But talking down is a habit many people
cultivate when they live a few years abroad and go back east to try to
impress on how much they have achieved. Unfortunately, they do let out that
they did not achieve even basic courtesy which true Goans have in plenty.
Talk to a true native Goan - the gaudo - and see the indepth strength of
character and quiet courtesy and respectfulness, not to mention the warmth
of heart that they have despite maybe a lack of high education and riches.
Somehow, when one goes abroad we mostly see the folks return as brash and
loud individuals who think they are God's gift to mankind. The truth is they
do not belong anywhere then, neither in the west where they will always be
regarded as hailing from India (or Pakistan for that matter) despite the
western nation citizenships or green cards which they flaunt, nor in India
and Goa where they no longer fit in. That is probably the single most
important reason for some expats wanting to free Goa from the so called
clutches of India. However, I predict ;-) that ten-fifteen years from now
when India will be far richer and far more affluent and far more safer than
the west, we will see the reverse exodus of these expats.
Nevertheless it is fun to see these characters in action. I remember the
time when this Goan chap who had lived in England for a few years insisted
on getting stamps for 20 pence at a local Goan post office. The poor post
office clerk didn't know what pence meant and asked whether he meant paisa.
Now saying the "paisa" word was beneath this England returned chap's dignity
so he stuck to his funny English accent with "pence" and the rest of us in
the queue were in splits until someone finally got irritated and just shoeed
the England returned chap away.;-)
So let's hope that if we finally get the Goan names right, our expat folks
will accept them. But if you think about it, how many of them actually
condescend to say Mumbai instead of Bombay ? :-) And saying Kolngutey may
really seem so eastern and tacky instead of the fancy Calangute. And Margao
is so stylish compared to the real Madganv. ;-)
Have a great 2003.
Sunila
>From: Frederick Noronha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [GOANET] Place names...
>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:25:11 +0530 (IST)
>
>Correction, Sunila. Not Kolngutey, Mhapshyanh and Madgaon but Congutti,
>Mapshea and Modganv... and surely people like Jorge Abreu Noronha could
>give us more phonetically-correct spellings. My own education was mostly
> >in the phonetically-far-from-accurate English language. (That too, in
>Goa, >which makes it phonetically even more inaccurate!)
>Devangari to Roman/Latin script renderings tend to be prone to error,
>specially if done without the symbols (these are not practical
>perhaps to implement) of the good old colonial times or the International
>Phonetic Alphabet and Daniel Jones' Pronouncing Dictionary.
>
>The other way round, from Roman/Latin to Devanagiri is less prone to
>error, since the latter script is more precise as to the exact sound each
>alphabet signifies. Of course, an agrument could be made that Devanagari
>too could do with a handful of extra characters to represent the peculiar
>sounds of Konkani (or Konknni, if you prefer) speech.
>To everyone taking part in this debate: Are we willing to take into
>account that Goa means different things to different people? Maybe there
>are five or six or eight different Goas out there, created according to
>the image and likeness of what we have in our imagination.
>
>These could be defined by geography, gender, caste, religion, and our own
>experiences with emigration and colonialism.
>
>The problem is that the expat-imagine Goa is quite a different animal from
>what is the current ruling ideology in Goa itself. Likewise, writers (all
>of us) are guilty of creating our own realities... These are complexities
>which perhaps need to be acknowledged before plunging into the debate.FN
