From: "Lino Leitao" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:27 pm Subject: Fw: [The Goan Forum d-list] Nossa Senhora Da Piedade - Divar
< Hindus, my ancestors, had temples in the shape of pagodas in Goa, and I think some are still there in that shape in Goa. But without proper research, one cannot be accurate about that, can we? Those who are passionate about this should take sabatical and do some research on this subject and educate us.>
Dear all I have been following this Temple Tantrum for some time. It is my opinion that the skepticism of Gilbert and the bemusement of Santosh - both are well placed.
Some thoughts - random order
1. What is the use of ANY religion if its fanatical followers have NO concept of Peace, Understanding, Compassion and Caring for the downtrodden.?
2. Lino's Hindu ancestors may have had their temples restructured into Catholic churches, but what about (say) MY Buddhist ancestors whose Pagodas and Stupas were restructured into Hindu temples?
And where on earth are the Goan Buddhist sites? ( please see Appendix 2 & 3 below)
3. Being an absolute rank amateur armchair researchist myself, I hope (if & when I grow up) to be like the REAL researchers who quote SELECTIVELY from a document here and a document there & and proclaim ...............EUREKA! .....................................I is de beshtest!
I invite those BESHTEST researchers to read Appendix 1 - and DE DOCUMENTES !
BTW: Has anyone found the answer YET as to WHY the RULING NAIRS of Kerala had / condoned / supported the law which expected Lower "Caste" women to expose their BOSOMS to these guys?
Can you imagine the gall of these guys to lecture others about the Empire striking Back
jose
Me No likes No chaddiwala(i) nor topiwalla(i) - They all is Corrupt to the core.
Tumeric or no tumeric
=============================
Appendix 1 - FAKE DOCUMENTS
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3549679.stm
MP George Galloway has accepted damages and a public apology over an American newspaper article
=============================
Appendix 2 - TEMPLE KEMPLE
http://www.colaco.net/3/religion&indianpoliticians.htm Pravin Sabnis May 27, 2002
<They dig up graveyards of history to show how temples were demolished to make way for mosques. If they dig further, they would find scores of Stupas being demolished to build temples.>
=============================
Appendix 3 - TIME for the Chaddiwallas to take note
Evidence of early Buddhist influence in Goa
* the first image of Buddha - excavation Henry Heras SJ at Mushira Waddo in Colvale in the 1930 - image of Buddha in Dhyanamudra is dated 4th century AD
* the second image of Buddha - bronze - found in the house of Mhamai Kamat of Panaji - dated to 7th century AD
* the third image of Buddha - in Rivona, Sanguem - belongs to 7th century AD
* two rock cuts caves in Lamgao near Bicholim - The name of the village suggestive of being of Buddhist origin and it essentially means "abode of the Lamas", the Buddhist monks of Tibet.
* the cave complex at Arvalem now known as the "Pandava Caves" was also of Buddhist origin, later MODIFIED into a Hindu shrine.
===================
Appendix 4 (full script of above)
http://goacentral.com/Goamonuments/early_buddhist_and_jain_influence_in_goa.htm
The discovery of the first image of Buddha.
The late Fr. Henry Heras, then the principal of St. Xavier’s College, Bombay conducted a small excavation at Mushira Waddo in Colvale in the 1930. During the excavation, he discovered an image of Buddha. This image is now exhibited in the Fr. Heras Institute, located in St. Xavier’s college, Bombay.
The image of Buddha in Dhyanamudra is dated 4th century AD. It is postulated that the Buddhist monastery at Mushira Waddo might have been established by the feudatory rules of Goa, i.e. the Bhojas of Chandrapur. However, no traces of the monastery are found at Mushira Waddo today.
The discovery of the second image of Buddha
The second image is the head of Buddha in bronze was found in the house of Mhamai Kamat of Panaji and presently exhibited in the State Museum of Goa. It is a beautiful piece of bronze of a very small size (about 3cm.x2cm,). This head of Buddha is dated to 7th century AD.
The discovery of the third image of Buddha
This image was discovered in Rivona, Sanguem taluka, which is about 70 Kms from Panaji. This image is in "Bhumi Sparsha Mudra" and is headless. The height of the image up to shoulders is 90cms and the breadth of Vajrasana is 115cms. The huge rectangular pedestal of which this above image was placed in the monastery was also found. The two other small pedestals on which perhaps Bodhisattva images were placed were also found. However, Bodhisattva images were not found. The image of Buddha from Rivona belongs to 7th century AD.
This image of Buddha was found lying in a topsy-turvy fashion in the midst of a field belonging to Shri Sarvottam Desai. To the north of the site at a distance of about 2kms and at height of about 2 mts are two rock-cut caves. At the site where Buddha image was found lying also contains some ruins. Further excavation of the site resulted in the discovery of the foundation of laterite monastery measuring 10.5X 5.60 meters.
Discovery of Buddhist rock cut caves
There are two rock cuts caves in Lamgao near Bicholim. One of the caves has an impressive pavilion like structure in the sanctum and a well cut entablature with beams and ceiling, all of which have imparted dignity to its cave. Attempted formation of a niche series at the surface of the beams and the enormity of the of the size of pillars besides the massive platform have given this cave an appearance similar to that found in Buddhist caves of the Deccan. The name of the village is suggestive of being of Buddhist origin and it essentially means "abode of the Lamas", the Buddhist monks of Tibet. It also seems probable that the cave complex at Arvalem now known as the "Pandava Caves" was also of Buddhist origin, later modified into a Hindu shrine. The recently discovered inscription on the lingam which was fashioned out of pillar of Shiva temple from the same locality clearly testifies this statement. The incomplete inscription refer to another Shiva temple perhaps from the same locality. These caves were excavated by Buddhists initially and were later occupied by Hindu Shaivites during the decadence of Buddhism as a religion in India.
Evidence of early Jainism Influence
Jainism is another ancient religion of India, similar to but older than Buddhism. Founded and popularized by Shree Mahavir Jain. Unlike Buddhism which has almost no followers in India today, Jainism has a very strong presence in India. Many of its present day followers can be identified by their last name 'Jain".
There are ruins of three Jain temples belonging to Vijayanagar period. The first Jain Basti of Neminath is from Bandivade of Ponda taluka. The other two Jain temples are located in Cudnem and Jainkot area of Narve and both these temples belong to the Vijayanagar period.
Ruins of the Neminath Jain Basti at Bandivade
A stone inscription from Nagueshi exhibited in the Museum of Archaeological Survey of India refers to the reconstruction of this Jain Basti during Vijayanagar period in 14th century. The Neminath Basti of Bandivade is square shaped and built of laterite blocks with grilled windows. An arch is provided at the entrance. It is possible that a dome existed over the structure. Lime mortar has been found to have been used extensively as the binding material.
Ruins of the Cudnem Jain Temple.
The "Garbagriha" as well as the "Mukha Mandapa" are constructed of laterite with Lime mortar being used as the the binding material. The entrance of garbagriha has an arch. The laterite blocks discovered in the excavation clearly indicate that there were arches in the "Mukha Mandapa". These arches were embellished with a laterite floral pendant at the center of the arch. One such floral pendant has been discovered in a recently conducted excavation. The presence of these arches strongly suggest that there was a overlying dome covering the temple. This "Mukha Mandapa" is 8 x 8.30 meters. There are four pillars in the center and four others on each side wall. The "Garbagriha" as well as the "Mukha Mandapa" stand on a 2meter high platform. The octagonal "Shikara" of the "Garbagriha" has five tiers. The lower most is half spherical with a rectangular small entrance for the "Garbagriha". This is the only medieval temple of Goa which has a "Nagara" (Indo-Aryan) architectural features. The high platform and the tall Shikara give a sense of soaring height to the temple. The "Mukha Mandapa" has a gabled roof with tiles. A "Prakara" wall with a base of pillars has also been unearthed. This Jain temple is similar to the Saptakoteshwar temple of Narve and the Chandranath temple of Paroda. It is possible that this temple was the forerunner of these architecturally similar temples. The use of Lime mortar and the architectural features indicate that the temple belonged to Vijayanagar period. A broken stone head of a "Teerathankara" or a Jain saint, with beautifully sculpted curls was also found near the "Garbagriha". A stone torso of another Jain "Teerathankara" with a "Srivasta" symbol was also unearthed. Another find occurred while desilting a nearby well in the vicinity of the temple. At a depth of 5 meters, the right leg of a Statue was discovered. It appears that the broken head and the leg belonged to the same image. This image of a "Teerathankara" belongs to the Kadamba period. It however appears that Jains during the Kadamba period were not prosperous to begin with but in the subsequent Vijayanagar Period, they might have gained prosperity due to their active participation in mercantile activity.
Ruins of the Narve Jain Temple.
The ruins today are called "Jainkot" and are located in the Village of Narve in Bicholim taluka. They lie very near the present temple of Saptakoteshwar . In front of the Saptakoteshwar temple, there is ancient pathway constructed of locally available laterite slabs which lead to the ruins of Jain temple. These consist of mainly door jams, ceiling canopy and lintels chlorite schist. The Jain temple was built of laterite. Lime mortar has also been noted to have been used extensively here also. In an inscription there is only a mention of the name "Sparsvanath" and along with the name of the month and day, corresponding to the English calendar date of March 13th, 1151 AD. During this period the Kadambas were in power and its ruler at that time was King Vijayaditya.
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
##########################################################################
# Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others #
##########################################################################
