Gilbert, You have cleverly mangled my post and made "ghodshem" of it, just as you accuse others of doing the same to your posts. You have put words in my mouth. Well done!! And as usual, in your inimitable condescending tone, you have resorted to grandstanding and patronizing discourse. I asked you to be practical....but you chose to give us generalities without any substance. You have smartly avoided the specific points that I raised. The only thing you have confirmed is that you are a Cafeteria Catholic. Thank you!!
Please point out the following in my post: Where did I BLAME the church for annulling marriages? Please read your own writing......Can I assume, from what you wrote, that you deduced that I blamed the church for annulling marriages?? If so, FYI, I did not......Please read once again what I wrote: http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/2005-April/027320.html Please tell us "What do you think of people who are divorced and whose marriages are annulled (or not) by the church?" Do you consider them to be beneath you because you have managed to stay in your marriage? Are such people less favorable in the eyes of God than those who have been blessed with not having to go through the pain of separation? Are they immoral because their marriages have failed due to circumstances that only they can comprehend? Reforms: At the start of the paragraph you state - "Nothing wrong with reform".......two sentences later you state "the ones promoting reform IMHO appear to do so just to show their shallow interest and loyalty"......did you say something about talking from both sides of one's mouth....tch-tch-tch!! How can "reform promoters" also be "loyal?" Some kind of anomaly there... I disagree with what you say about George......I certainly disagree with some of the points George is propagating but I think George has consistently clarified himself on this and other issues on Goanet.....I can also state he has relentlessly been bold enough to stand-up and repeat what he has said before. He has never resorted to circumventing from answering a question..... something that comes to you easily. The Catholic church is a well established religion. It has seen reform and has also resisted a lot of it too. As members of the church, we learn from reform-minded theologians who strive to keep this colossus marching with the times. We also pay attention to rigid autocrats who claim they have the Holy Spirit on their side to determine in cast-iron theologies what should be good for us, the laity. Just because one asks questions and pushes for reform, should his/her loyalty be questioned? In case I have sidetracked... and just incase you have forgotten, I ask you again... "What do you think of people who are divorced and whose marriages are annulled (or not) by the church?" Best wishes - Bosco -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 28, 2005 1:56 PM Hi Bosco: Here are some responses to many points raised in several posts. I reply to one logic (train of thought) and the other zings me from a different direction. Usually your posts are pretty sensible and unlike other posts there is consistency i.e.. rarely do they talk from sides of the mouth. However your comments baffle me right from the go. Here is your first statment. >I concede it could be unfortunate for "the kids" but tell us what is "wrong" And you go on to blame the church for annulling the divorced marriage. So I will save myself from trying to respond to the rest of your comments because I do not see a consistent perspective, but rather random thoughts which make it difficult to know whether you are for or against cafeteria (anything). Please you and others who are so inclined suggest to your own family that let's switch to cafeteria rules in your home from tomorrow. In two weeks perhaps you can end this sterile / theoretical debate by telling us your experience. Should I put a smiley face and give you that as an option / wriggle room? To Santosh: A fanatic / fundamentalist in my view may be going against the second commandment of Jesus (the first commandment was from Moses) which is: Love your neighbor as thyself. To Mario's question: If we all were pure /rigid Catholics we would be Saints. But we are not. But at least we should try. When we fail, we should be guilty of our failure. A cafeteria person thinks it is his/her right to go a la carte in the cafeteria with his/her own menu. He/She is on the pulpit saying look at me. And the rest of us say, "Smart Person or Great Chef.":=)) To George's and Bosco's questions about reforms. Nothing wrong with reform. But just practical experience in USA tells me that by most parameters, the practice of religion and Catholicism has declined post-reform. And some of the ones promoting reform IMHO appear to do so just to show their shallow interest and loyalty. George fits this category especially after making a great case during the election of the Pope. I pointed this about-face, so I will not repeat it again. As far as women priests, the women have ample opportunities to serve Christ, which is the fundamental reason to be a priest or nun. In the past women have done a splendid job of serving Christ and like men, the Church has awarded them with Sainthood. Today, unfortunately not enough women or men have vocations. And that to me is the biggest issue which women-priest will not address. It is my understanding that there is a greater interest / calling to join Mother Theresa order in the USA than to join the priesthood or other nunneries, which are far ahead in comfort and everything else that is worldly. IMHO changing the liturgy to native language has helped the average catholic and the church. Beyond that very little in the reforms has helped religion including the church being lax in the garb that nuns and priests wear. There are the unintended consequences of reforms that none of the pro-reformers seen to understand or care. Change for the sake of change results in, "I concede divorce could be unfortunate for the kids but tell us what is wrong" attitude. Regards "Bosco D'Mello" Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > Being a non-cafeteria Catholic or a non-cafeteria Goan does not make one a > fanatic. There is nothing wrong with being and staying married and going to > Sunday Church. There is something wrong with being divorced. Ask the kids. +++ I concede it could be unfortunate for "the kids" but tell us what is "wrong" with being divorced. And don't preach from a moral pulpit!! This is the 21st century!! Be practical !! The Catholic Church itself has annulled thousands of marriages.
