Marlon Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Peter,
The logs also reveal that Chris Vaz made some rather
racist comments on the Arab community in Michigan. I'm
sure you dont agree with those comments of his!
Marlon,
If my memory serves me correctly, Chris used the term "ilk" in what seemed like
a pejorative use of the word. He could have just as easily substituted another
word or phrase (such as "the Arab comunity in Michigan" or whatever) to make
his point without giving Tariq or anybody else an opportunity to take offense.
He seemed to be making a generalisation, and generalisations as a rule are
based on common reality. I do not use the word "racist" lightly and would not
call Chris Vaz a racist for his remarks. Many people on this forum object more
to the messenger than the message and will allow deliberately twisted logic to
attack the messenger when they have no real counter argument. When I mentioned
Chris Vaz, it was in the context of Cornel's allegation that Mario doesn't
agree with anybody else on the forum.
Likewise, your bunching of groups into two political
categories, viz, liberals and conservatives is overly
simplistic. There are many of us who would like to see
social security, welfare, medicaid and other excuses
for excessive government spending abolished. We would
like to see unfettered free trade and an end of
immigration quotas to allow the import of unlimited
labor from abroad to allow industry to reduce its
labor costs and to use the best the world has to
offer. Coversely, we do not want a big, intrusive
government imposing its moral values on us or telling
us how to behave or think.
Marlon, you are absolutely correct in this. I have, in fact, simplified the
issue. When I was talking about conservatives I was thinking of "hawks" and
cultural/social conservatives, I should have specified.
While the conservative crowd has generally been pro
business (although this is not a hard and fast rule,
specially wrt open immigration), it has an increasing
component of the intolerant religious right.
I am disinclined to associate immigration *policy* with business policy. I am
very pro-immigrant and think that President Bush's proposals are about the most
clever, decent, compromise on the subject. It illustrates a respect for the
intent of the law while making a slight compromise on the letter of the law.
Conservatives are often divided on the subject of imigration. You will find
folks like Tamar Jacoby writing in favour of the Bush plan on the pages of the
Wall Street Journal, and other like Michelle Malkin writing on Townhall.com in
favour of coming down hard on illegal residents. There is more debate among
conservatives than most people are willing to admit.
Your remark about the "intolerant religious right" (IRR) is entirely misplaced.
Please spend some time with people whom you believe are part of this religious
right. Perhaps you are associating Christian Nation hate groups and the KKK
with the religious right? Let me tell you something: I live in deeply
conservative country. The city I live in has several mega-churches, including
the third largest church in the USA. There is a church on almost every corner.
It is what most opinionated social and political liberals might describe as a
bastion of right wing fundamentalist Christians (on a good day) or the IRR.
There's another side to this city and it's more rural neighbourhoods, though:
it has a large Klan presence and on at least one occasion I have had some of
that hate directed at me. In fact, the assistant Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux
Klan in America lives about three miles from my home. You might think,
therefore, that all this makes it a hotbed of religious intolerance. But this
isn't the case, it most definitely is not. This is the friendliest town that
I've lived in, I love it here. I attend an evangelical church with about 350
people you'd probably label as being part of the IRR--and I happen to be the
only non-white adult there--but I've never been in a friendlier church. My kids
are among the most loved by parents and other kids. It is comfortable, even for
people whom you might think are perfect targets for intolerance. People outside
of churches are also very friendly.
My hunch is that you have heard that term used liberally in the media and
seriously believe that a large voting bloc of intolerant people do exist. The
media are frequently disconnected from reality, which you probably know. I
heard of a case where a fellow asked a roomful of about 30 journalists whether
any of them personally knew somebody who was homosexual, to which everybody
raised their hands. He then asked if anybody personally knew an evangelical
Christian, to which three of the journalists present raised their hands. So
there you have it, they're thoroughly acquainted with a tiny minority of the
population and completely disconnected from a huge ("scary") segment of the
population.
All the best, and thanks for your thoughtful feedback concerning my
generalisations. I might have to make an apology soon if somebody takes offence
at my "French" remark. ;-)
Peter
