Hi Gabe
I am happy to provide the clarification you need. I will do so, through
interspersed
comments with your text but in CAPITALS merely to distinguish the inputs. I
hope the moderators accept such use of space.
Cornel
Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 28/12/2007, CORNEL DACOSTA wrote:
As to your views about caveats to the above, it is incumbent upon you
to provide the evidence if you are serious about any "litmus test".
Naturally, I await this! Also, there is no podium---just a humble
keyboard.
> Regards
> Cornel
HI Cornel,
Your statement that you are against Sati and other forms of racism.
CORNEL: YES DEFINITELY AGAINST SATI OF YESTERDAY AND TODAY BUT THIS IS NOT AN
EXAMPLE OF RACISM AS IS IMPLIED IN YOUR SENTENCE.
Your informing us that you took a stand on the South African issue
too. Then you inform us vigorously that you are against Catholic Goans
practising caste; which is fair enough. In the same breath you state
that the caste practised by Hindus, whether they be Goans or Indians
generally, is not up for confrontation by you...it is a matter for the
Hindus.
CORNEL: MY STANCE HAS BEEN THAT HINDUISM IN RELATION TO CASTE IS
INCOMPATIBLE WITH BELIEF IN CATHOLICISM AND NOBODY ON GOANET HAS BEEN ABLE TO
CHALLENGE THIS POINT TO DATE IN A SUBSTANTIVE WAY. INDEED I FIRST RAISED THIS
POINT THREE YEARS AGO AND MORE AND MORE GOANETTERS ARE EMPHASISING THIS POINT
NOW. I TAKE IT THAT YOU AGREE WITH ME ON THIS KEY POINT.
I ALSO SAID THAT THERE IS MUCH CASTE PRACTISE (AS WE ALL KNOW)AMONG THE
HINDUS AND MUCH AS I ABHOR CASTE PER SE, WITH REASONS ABOUT THE MAN MADE HUMBUG
OF CASTE, I PREFER TO HAVE HINDU RADICALS FIGHT THAT BATTLE IN INDIA. THIS
BATTLE HAS BEEN ONGOING FOR A LONG TIME AND IS INCREASINGLY GAINING IMPETUS
INTERNATIONALLY TOO AND I CONTRIBUTE FINANCIALLY TO THAT MOVEMENT. HOWEVER,
FOR ANY CHRISTIAN TO directly SPEARHEAD AND FIGHT HINDU CASTE IS DEFINITELY A
FRAUGHT AND FORMIDABLE TASK. MINIMALLY, IT RAISES THE QUESTION OF WHAT RIGHT
HAS ANY CHRISTIAN TO FIGHT THE BELIEF SYSTEM OF ANOTHER RELIGION OR WAY OF
LIFE? IT IS LIKE ASKING ME, AS A CHRISTIAN, TO SPEARHEAD A FIGHT AGAINST
CIRCUMCISION AMONG MUSLIMS AND JEWISH MALES EVEN THOUGH THERE IS MUCH HOSTILE
LITERATURE ON THIS ISSUE!. I WOULD BE MAD TO DO SO WOULDN'T YOU AGREE---AT
LEAST FOR NOW?
AS TO FIGHTING APARTHEID, THE NATURE OF THE BEAST WAS SUCH THAT THOUSANDS OF
SOUTH AFRICAN EXILES AND FELLOW SUPPORTER FROM THE WESTERN WORLD WERE NEEDED TO
OVERTHROW IT. THIS IS NOT YET THE CASE RE INDIAN CASTE.
SOME CASTE APOLOGISTS AMONG THE 'CHRISTIAN' GOANS WOULD LIKE ME TO TAKE ON
THE BIGGER BATTLE ABOUT CASTE IN INDIA. BUT I INSIST ON CONFINING MYSELF TO THE
TASK I HAVE IDENTIFIED VERY CLEARLY AND FOR THE REASONS I HAVE PROVIDED. I
DETERMINE THE AGENDA ABOUT WHAT I SAY AND WRITE. I AM NOT ENAMOURED BY THE
THOUGHT OF OTHERS CHOOSING OR SHAPING ANy AGENDA FOR ME. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!
I'D RATHER WIN ON A SMALL REALISTIC AGENDA THAN LOSE ON A HUGE ONE! IS THERE
ANYTHING ODD ABOUT THIS?
HOWEVER, I AM ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT HINDUS WHO BELIEVE IN CASTE (REMEMBER,
MANY REJECT IT TOTALLY), BUT WHO ALSO THINK THEY ARE CATHOLICS SIMULTANEOUSLY,
ARE ENTIRELY WRONG. I WOULD THEREFORE RATHER THEY OPTED FOR ONE OR THE OTHER IN
ALL OUR INTERESTS. NOW, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?
NOW, PERHAPS YOU WILL TELL ME WHERE THERE IS ANY LOGICAL OR LITERAL CONFUSION
IN WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOVE?
How you can reconcile the two, is what a whole load of us on
Goanet and the many silent ones who have queried this, are trying in
vain to fathom. Why should Hindus who want to practise Sati bother
you, if you can avert your gaze from Hindus practising caste ?
SATI IS A SERIOUS BREECH OF HUMAN RIGHTS THAT HAS A DEGREE OF IMMEDIACY ABOUT
IT. IT IS ALSO AGAINST THE LAW IN INDIA. THAT ALONE IS A GOOD REASON TO REJECT
IT. IN CONTRAST, CASTE IMPLICATION HAS LESS DRASTIC AND IMMEDIATE
REPERCUSSIONS. IT IS ALSO NOT AGAINST THE LAW AS YET (AS IS FOR EXAMPLE DOWRY
DEMAND). I HOPE THAT THIS IS A CLEAR EXPLANATION. I THEREFORE DO NOT AVERT MY
"GAZE" FROM HINDUS PRACTISING CASTE EVEN THOUGH I HAVE STRONG VIEWS ABOUT THIS.
I TAKE A PRAGMATIC VIEW ABOUT THIS BUT MAKE A LOT OF 'NOISE' WHEN THE DALITS IN
PARTICULAR, ARE SERIOUSLY VICTIMISED AS IS EVIDENT IN SOME OF MY EARLIER GOANET
POSTS. HAVE YOU SOMEHOW MISSED THEM? ( SEE FOR INSTANCE, MY LONG ARTICLE WITH
DATA DRAWN FROM A PUBLICATION ON "CASTE MEANS BROKEN").
I shall be in the land of the casteists in a fortnights time, the
casteists of whatever hue will not bother me; this is a matter of fact
and reality. Those who still speak Portuguese in Margao will also not
bother me, as those who speak Hindi. What would bother me and a lot of
my neighbours, is if our Church is burned down; If people are turned
down a job, because of their caste, or colour of nationality. If
people are beaten up or demeaned because of their Caste, now that
would bother me.
I WON'T QUIBBLE FOR NOW WITH YOUR CONCLUDING PARAGRAPH AND WOULD INDEED AGREE
WITH YOUR LAST SENTENCE. BUT PLEASE DO NOT OVERLOOK THE FACT THAT A LOT OF THE
'LOW CASTES' ARE BEATEN, KILLED AND MOST CERTAINLY DEMEANED IN INDIA TO THE
POINT THAT MANMOHAN SINGH HAS SAID THAT CASTE [IN INDIA] IS A BLOT ON HUMANITY.
I HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH HIM MUCH MORE THAN I CAN AGREE WITH YOUR RATHER
IMPRESSIONISTIC AND OUTDATED VIEWS ABOUT SATI AND CASTE TODAY. I ALSO TAKE IT
THAT YOU HAVE NEVER OBJECTED TO RACISM IN THE UK. AFTER ALL, IF YOU CAN PUT UP
WITH THE VERY EXISTENCE OF CASTEISM IN GOA/INDIA, AS YOU HAVE EXPRESSLY
INDICATED, YOU MUST HAVE TURNED A BLIND EYE TO THE HARD ANTI-RACIST WORK
UNDERTAKEN BY SO MANY AND TO WHOM YOU, AMONG OTHERS, ARE INDEBTED BUT ALSO A
MAJOR BENEFICIARY. PLEASE DO ESPECIALLY THINK ABOUT THIS POINT WHEN IN GOA.
IF THERE IS ANY FURTHER CLARIFICATION NEEDED ON MY STANCE ON THE ISSUES
ABOVE, I WILL BE HAPPY TO OBLIGE.
Regards
Cornel
PS Do have a nice time in Goa and a happy New Year to you and your family.
