--- On Wed, 12/17/08, Mario Goveia <[email protected]> wrote: > > They don't use rose tinted glasses when looking at Pakistan, whose > children are taught jihad against India in their government run public > schools. > Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:17:43 -0800 (PST) From: Santosh Helekar <[email protected]>
Do you have any objective pieces of evidence for the allegation that Pakistani children are taught jihad against India, for us to examine? I am not saying that you are wrong, but I don't know to what extent you are right either. Mario responds: Here are some sources: http://www.scribd.com/doc/8572488/Pakistan-Jihad http://articles.latimes.com/2005/aug/18/world/fg-schools18 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\07\25\story_25-7-2006_pg7_1 http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=2&fodname=20051010&fname=Pakistan+%28F%29&sid=1 I also have a personal anecdote that I could not understand at the time, but do now. A Pakistani physician friend took severe umbrage during a social function at my suggestion that the partition of the Indian sub-continent was one of the worst decisions in world history. My reasoning was based on the fact that Pakistan and Bangladesh, with 95% plus Muslim populations, were essentially failed states, whereas an undivided secular India would have had about a 28% Muslim population, double the current percentage, and this would have made all Indian minorities stronger. Not to mention eliminated all the angst over Kashmir and the BILLIONS spent in human lives and treasure defending themselves against each other. He angrily denounced my suggestion, saying that he, as a Muslim, would have "been sweeping floors" in an undivided India. His wife joined in telling me, an even smaller Indian minority person who happily grew up assertively crossing verbal swords with local RSS and Hindu Mahasabha activists in my hometown of Jabaplur, challenging them with deeds and earning their respect, that I had no idea what Inda was like for minorities. I incredulously pointed out to them an Indian Muslim physician who was sitting at the same table, and my own family who are all physicians or engineers, as evidence they were wrong, which made them even more irate. At the time I could only shake my head at their insistence on ignoring all the evidence before them. Now I can see how deep seated their childhood indoctrination in Pakistan must have been. My theory now is that Pakistan and Bangladesh are failed states precisely because all the Jinnah-like paranoid Muslims and dregs of Muslim society ended up in those states, whereas the far saner portion of pre-partition Muslims saw no reason to move from India and still don't. Santosh wrote: I am now fully convinced that we cannot trust any of these activists and journalists who report on these things, whether it is Arun Shourie or Arundhati Roy. Most of these folk seem to have deep-seated pre-conceived agendas, and are very emotionally attached to them. Therefore, we have to look at the actual infractions that have been found by independent investigation(s) conducted by responsible bodies into these things. Mario responds: Who can argue against verifying facts? My favorite US President, Ronald Reagan, known for being witty and pithy, had a famous quote in dealing with the Soviets during the Cold War, "Trust, but verify." Having said that, I don't see any similarities between Arun Shourie and Arundhati Roy though they may both be ideologues. Arun may be biased in his opinions and have a particular point of view, but he works very hard at ascertaining and using facts. I think he is intellectually honest enough that he would be swayed by facts that were not available to him previously. Arundhati, on the other hand, is a master at deliberately and selectively ignoring facts and then trying to use them to justify the most absurd pre-conceived conclusions, which she then presents under a mountain range of verbal garbage.
