2009/10/18 Carvalho wrote: > Shivaji was a brigand, a hateful, hated brigand, who pillaged and > plundered. That he is claimed today by the Shiv Sena, itself should tell > us something. Of course they are welcome to their heroes but they are > not our heroes and we as Goans should have nothing to do with the > culture of hate.
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT) From: eric pinto <[email protected]> > He was a patriot, and a national partisan. > We risk a backlash by entertaining the counterproductive theories about > our history, voiced here every now and then. Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:36:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Anthony M Barreto <[email protected]> > The Maratha Incursions (1664-1741): Towards the end of 1664 Shivaji > Bhonsl? captured Kudal, Pernem and Bicholim from the Adil Shah. In 1666 > he also besieged Ponda from the Adil Shah. In 1667 Shivaji attacked > Bardez. He looted and burnt some villages for three days in succession. > Over 2000 men, women and children were taken prisoners and some were > killed. Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:00:03 -0600 From: Jeevan R <[email protected]> > The great Shivaji Bhonsle, the leader of masses, fought against the > atrocities of invading Moughals and the British to establish 'Swaraj' > or the 'secular kingdom' of the natives. > > Anyway, ignorance is bliss indeed-- you cannot win an argument which > is not based on facts. Mario observes: Since none of those either vilifying or defending Shivaji have bothered to cite their sources, and none of them are old enough to know for themselves what Shivaji actually did or did not do, as the lone voice on Goanet for reason, truth and shanti, I am left to wonder what this peculiar unverifiable discussion about ancient history is meant to achieve? It's like discussions on whether the ejection of the Portuguese was "legal" or not, or whether Saddam Hussein "had no WMDs" but lost his head nevertheless because he was so stupid that he was unable to show the UN inspectors, and more importantly, George Bush, that he REALLY didn't have any. Would YOU give up your kingdom by being unable to show you didn't have something you were supposed to have disposed off and provided an accounting of, and actually did? But, I digress. Who gives a cr.., ...er, hoot, about any of this in 2009? I developed a health disrespect for Indian history as a schoolboy in India and reading in history books written by some British historian who was not even there how 500 Brits had defeated 5,000 Indians in this or that battle without even breaking a sweat or being late for lunch at the Officer's Mess over a gin and tonic. As far as I can see these red herrings only distract attention and energy from the problems being faced in Goa and their solutions. As Cheryl Pereira and I pointed out recently, Goa has been in Goan hands since 1987. That's 22 years ago. Everything going on in Goa today is the fault only of Goans and/or the responsibility only of Goans, and only Goans can fix these problems, NOT Marathas, Ghantis, Bhayyas, Mallus or anyone else who may be the villain du jour. In my opinion, it all has to start with electing honest politicians. Without organizing and working towards that preliminary objective, you folks can continue to bloviate and bluster and post kaneos of how good or bad the mining companies or building contractors are, how the global cooling trend of the last eleven years - which some Goanetters don't even seem to know about - is going to end in mass migrations, famine and food riots, beaches in Saligao, the sky falling and us all burning in hell on earth, how brutal or heroic Shivaji was or how benevolent or hideous the Portuguese were. I will thank you in advance for providing me with endless amusement and fodder by pointing out all the irrelevance, illogic and overheated verbal emissions taking place:-)) Even as I cry inside at what is happening to the land of my ancestors.
